Recent Unstable Comfort II

[CTx]

I used Comfort I for about 20 years between 1999 and 2020.If ever (rarely) there was anything strange I could always trace it back to one of the sensors getting wild. Comfort I has always been a rock solid dependable friend.And so has been with Comfort II (until now), since I upgraded 4 years ago by now. 
Recently I was surprised just minutes I left home to travel for a period out-of-home by an alarm reporting almost all window/door or movement detectors.

I had to return back home and found that the wireless systems were down - no power was beeing fed to them from Comfort 12v.

The rest of the system was working perfectly normal as much as I could receive the alarms on my phone and interact with it to switch it to \"security off\" remotely. Resetting Comfort did not return power to the Wireless sensors. 
Only by switching off-on power did the Wireless systems got power back. 
As I had to proceed with my interrupted travel I left home with the system armed again to AWAY mode. It \"looked\" normal and I had to leave and so I did not go after further details. 

Since this ocurrence the system became unstable generating random alarms by several sensors, and, still out of home I had to switch back to \"security off\". 
Getting back home and going about my life I had no time to get back imediatly after the problem and kept it under \"security off\" mode for some days. 
During this time I was \"surprised\" to hear some door/windows chimes related to false window/door activation and one more episode of lights-out for the wireless system which had to be recovered again with a Comfort power off-on. 

So, yesterday I managed to have some time to go and do some troubleshooting, if possible. 

My Comfort system is a CP9000 Ultra with a Local Expansion Module 16x inputs, UCM/ETH3, 3x KP04 and one RLY01H. I use one Comfort OUTPUT and one RLY01 relay to drive the ARM state of a AJAX Wireless system together with a Visonic MCR-308 fro some sensors (leftover from Comfort I). 

This configuration has been working flawlessly for the last 4 years.Each Wireless system has a MAX drain of 25mA, so well well below the 1A Comfort can supply to connected sensors. I took 12v to feed both systems from the OUTPUTs 12v supply.


My guess: The power off events of the wireless systems look like a circuit crowbar of the Comfort 12v - If so I cannot explain how the rest of the Comfort system was responding up to call me on the phone and reacting to commands.


Measures taken with my digital multimeter (yesterday):

14v AC supply  - OK (around 14-14.5)
12v supply close to the zones - around 13.5DC BUT with 29 AC positive
12v supply close to OUTPUTs - 12.5DC BUT with 26-27 AC positive

My guess: I have no other input or whatsoever connection to any other AC source other than the Comfort supply. 
The overposition of an AC component over the 12v supplies given by Comfort can only be due to a malfunction to the 12v DC regulating circuitry in Comfort (29 =14.5 x 2).

This AC component seems to be tolerated by both wireless systems but can explain the instability and randomness of sensor activation.
DC regulating circuitry seems to be part of the CP9000 motherboard.

Am I doomed ?
Let me know your thoughts.Thank you. 

[slychiu]

There are resetable fuses on the 12V output from Comfort. If there is any overcurrent beyond the maximum current allowed from the 12V output  (around 1 Amp) then that would cause the resettable fuse to open - the resetable fuse would be very hot to the touch at that time When the fuses have cooled down they allow 12V output again.  The purpose of the restable fuses are to protect the Comfort 12V outputs from damage.

one solution could be using a separate 12V supply with batery backup for the wireless systems. you can buy these dseparately from alarm distributors,
You could also add a SEP01 Slave with battery which has ots own 12V outputseven f you dont use the SEM

[CTx]

Hi!
thanks for your reply.

But, what about the 12v readings I mentioned ?


1- They are different values if taken from the OUTPUTs area OR from the zones area (25v vs 29v)


2 - NON-FLAT 12v DC
They have a 25v or 29v AC component over the 12v DC.
It is a +25 or +29v because if I switch the multimeter probes I get ZERO (0v) AC reading.


3 - So, the Wireless systems get 12.5v DC + 25v AC (with only the positive cycles of the waveform non-rectified, meaning what looks output of an AC rectifiying bridge and not a completly rectified and flat DC voltage)
This is not very \"stable\" for the wireless system and may explain (I would guess) the instability of the sensors in general.


Having a total voltage of 12.5 + 25 = 37.5 over the same load would explain (3x the current expected) the crowbar and the 12v fuse activation.


Nevertheless, the very low 2 x 25mA = 50mA combined from both wireless systems specified drain from the wireless systems would not (normally) justify to have aditional power supply arrangement. 

My guess is that the 12v circuitry got somehow damaged (under normal operation) - and is feeding 12v DC ... PLUS an AC component (unreasonably high) that sometimes gets to the point of generating an overcurrent  and trips the protecting fuse 

OR/AND 

under \"normal\" operation feeds an unstable voltage (12.5v + 25v AC) to the wireless system that makes it trip sensors randomly.

Let me know your view of these 12v notes and if there is anything else I can read into the system that may further clarify the (\"regular\" or not) operation condition of the Comfort power supply.Is this circuitry detachable (and repairable) from the rest of the motherboard (2 parts) ?

Thanks in advance.

[slychiu]

Sprry i did not see the AC component.

There should not be any significnt AC voltage on the 12V outputs as it should be rectified and any ac voltage should be removed. If it as recenetly started misbehaving it could be that the 2V output has been damaged.Disconnect the wireless system and check if there is any AC voltage
If you wish to repair you would have tp send it back to Singapore but I expect thatafter 2 waytransport and repair charges, it would not be cost effective. I suggest to buy a new CM9001 with the new DC power supply

[CTx]

I think I have a CM9000 ...

I bought it (2019) from Marie Li at LASER UK (before BREXIT...) and the product reference on the Sales order is:

CP9000-ULT/EN01 ---- Comfort II ULTRA HA Alarm Controller EN01
C091383

I would prefer to have a straight replacement.

Has the CP9000 been discontinued ?

Do I have to replace it with a CP9001 ?

What diferences should I have in account in planning for the replacement ?

Thanks

[slychiu]

CM9000 is no longer produced, see http://www.comfortforums.com/forum140/5091.html for compatibilityThe size of the pcb is the same, you can mount in the same enclosure.

This requires a different power supply, DC15V TT01-0022
If you have an LEM that needs to be replaced with the new version

[CTx]

Hi!

I have got an external 12V power supply backed up by an UPS.

I just replaced the 12V previously taken from Comfort (12v and Common) and inserted the 12V (+V and -V) provided by the external power supply.

As a consequence, all extenal sensors (AJAX and Visonic) were detected by Comfort as activated (magnetic and movement).

If I replace back the 12V supply (to AJAX and Visonic) taken from Comfort, everything gets back to normal (all sensors are reported normally (inactive))

So, the only difference is the 2 wires that provide the 12V supply to AJAX and Visonic controllers (from Comfort -» OK, from external PS -» not OK)

It\'s late now and have to postpone further investigation for tomorrow.

Do you have any tip on what could be the reason and any advice on getting the 12V connection of the external PS right.

Thank you.

[slychiu]

how much current does the external power supply able to supply. you must ensure that it is enough for all the wireless ajax devices. also check that the polarity of the wires from the power supply is correct, and measure the 12V to the Ajax that it is 12 to 13V.

By the way Ajax has stopped selling the wireless receivers, and only sell the wireless alarm system oly which is a pity as they had a good solution

[CTx]

The 12V external PS is now connected and working as expected.

The external 12V cannot be left \"hanging\".

I had to ENSURE that the 12V external supply had the SAME common as the 12V supplied by Comfort. Connecting them together (Comfort COM (0V) and external PS -V (0V))

[CTx]

The 12V external PS is now connected and working as expected.

The external 12V cannot be left \"hanging\".

I had to ENSURE that the 12V external supply had the SAME common as the 12V supplied by Comfort. Connecting them together (Comfort COM (0V) and external PS -V (0V))