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05-02-2008, 12:50 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2008, 04:02 AM by admin.)
Hi. I am in the process of setting up two smoke detectors on my system: Version outside 4.207. I am programming via the engineers menu.
I have set the two zones (10 & 11) as [color=\"red\"]alarm type[/color] 23. (The sensors have NC contacts) and they are NON eol. I have checked the jumpers and they are set correct.
When I test the alarms I only get a \"zone trouble message\" NOT an instant alarm with a type 11 siren. I have checked the settings for the zone type - they all seem to be as the default for this zone type - I must be missing a trick somewhere.
Kind regards
Steve
Co[color=\"red\"]mment by Cytech
The above should be Zone Type 23. not Alarm Type 23. Zones are programmmed as Zone types, and Zone Types are assigtned to Alarm Types
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One of the causes of Zone Trouble is wrong jumper setting (JZ10 for zone 10 and JZ11 for zone 11) but since you\'ve checked those are correct then the other possibility would be communication failure between main board and LEM. Was the zone trouble announced shortly after power up?
Another cause of Zone Trouble could be that other voltages are connected to the zone input, for example if the zone wiring is shorted to other wires. Connect a switch (to simulate open and close contact) instead of the smoke detectors and go to Security Check mode F3, 2 to test if this is the case.
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Thank you for the response.
As for your comments in red, My mistake - 10 and 11 [color=\"green\"][size=\"3\"]are[/size][/color] set to [color=\"red\"]ZONE TYPE[/color] 23.
In answer to your first para. NO the problem only occurs when I test the alarms. (In this case by using real smoke). Both show exactly the same problem. ie only zone trouble when the contacts open.
I have also \"opened\" the circuit by disconnecting the J10 terminal on the board.
And still the same problem.
Any more suggestions, please.
Thanks
Steve
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Try to connect the smoke detectors to other available zones like zone 15 and zone 16 and see whether you are still getting the Zone Trouble? Make sure that location 2658 code is 12 (fire alarm).
Another alternative would be temporarily setting the zones as zone type 1, connect your smoke detectors and test them. Zone type 1 should give you intruder alarm when triggered.
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You have disconnected the terminal blocks from zone 10. Can you clarify what you mean by \"and still the same problem\". Does this mean that you get zone trouble or not?
With the wire to zone 10 (not the common) removed - ie similating an open contact I get exactly the same problem, as when testing the sensor with real smoke. IE Zone trouble and not a full fire alarm activation.
I have just changed the zone type on Z10 to 1, set the system to night mode and tested the smoke detector. I got a FULL ALARM WITH SIREN.
HAVE THERE EVER BEEN ANY CHANGES, BETWEEN THE VARIOUS VERSIONS OF COMFORT, TO ZONE TYPE 23 THAT WOULD BE AT THE ROOT OF THIS PROBLEM?
Best wishes
Steve
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The behaviour you have described is correct
A zone trouble for zone type 1 when the system is armed causes a FULL ALARM
Zone trouble for zone type 23 at all times causes Zone Trouble
There has been NO changes in the behaviour of zone type. All the behaviour is determined by the settings of the Zone types
The \"Trouble\" column in the Zone Types screen determines the alarm which happens when there is Trouble when the system is armed
Hence zone type 1 trouble when armed goes into alarm, zone 23 trouble when armed goes to Zone Trouble alarm. these are not hard coded
What it appears to be is the wrong setting of the EOL shunts
Double check that they are set to NO EOL ie the shunt should be towards the terminal blocks. If it is set as Double EOL resistors then there will be zone trouble
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I have double checked ( as I even started to doubt myself)!!
The shunts ARE near to the terminals on Ccts 10 and 11.
So - to recap -
If I change the zone type on CCT 10 to 1 and test, in night mode, we get a full alarm
BUT
If I have the zone type set to 23 - IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY. Only give me a trouble.
????ZONE type 23 is meant to give me a 24 hour file alarm with siren type 11 is it not?????
SO
Where else can I look for the problem?
Thanks
Steve
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To recap and expand on my previous explanation;
\"Zone trouble\" occurs when there is an open or short circuit detected when the zone is set for EOL resistors
For zone type 1 which is for a normal door or window contact, a Zone Trouble when system is unset causes a Zone Trouble alarm
When the system is armed, a Zone Trouble results in an Intruder alarm, as it may be due to a burglar cutting the alarm wires
For A Fire Alarm cutting the wires causes a Zone Trouble regardless of whether the system is armed or not. This behaviour is determined by the Zone Type Settings.
Hence to summarise if you have a zone trouble on Zone Type 23, it will give you a Zone Trouble alarm in Night mode and NOT a Fire Alarm
When the EOL shunts are set to NO EOL ie near the terminal blocks, zone trouble should not occur unless an external voltage is applied to the zone
You say you removed the wire from zone 10 but not the common. Can you remove ALL wires from both zone 10 and 11 and recheck for zone trouble?
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Hi
Thank you for your reply. I was already aware of the modus operandi of tamper circuits, with and without EOL resistors.
What we have here is something not connected with the sensors attached to comfort. I have now tested the TWO circuits in question: disconnecting BOTH the zone and the common connector and substituting a short length of cable plus a switch.
To be absolutely clear - I have simulated, at the panel end of my set-up a NC connection, similar to that which exists in the smoke detector and opened that contact...
As soon as the contact is opened I get a ZONE TROUBLE and NOT a full fire alert.
I also put a voltmeter across the pair coming down from the smoke detector - NO VOLTAGE PRESENT.
AND I also put the meter between each in turn of the two coming from the detector and ground - NO VOLTAGE PRESENT.
I also confirmed that there is 100% continuity across the contacts of the smoke detector - ie they are CLOSED.
Please could we now look at the programming side of this. I have checked all the settings that this type of zone should be set to ie - zone type 23 and alarm type 11. All seems correct.
Where else can I look?
Thanks
Steve
