| Posted: Thursday Jul 12th, 2007 11:19 am |
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juwi_uk
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Hi everyone,
Some questions about UCM/Smartfit for those ahead of me on this.
I have firmware 5.43.
(1) The heating Setpoint shows as 69 in WizComfort 1.4.6 when the heating is off but a "normal" (expected) value when the heating is on. It announces the same value on the keypad in the home control menu too. Is this a bug in the UCM firmware?
(2) "Hot Water Demand" and "Heating Demand" counters. Can someone please explain what these are and why they have a range 0 - 100%?. Are they only ever 0 or 100% or is there a condition when intermediate values will be seen?
(3) "Override room temp setpoint" counter. I've not ever seen a value ever go into this counter. I'm using the Wizcomfort Smartfit tab to look and play with these settings easily right now. What would I need to do to see a value in here? Surely if I pick the "override Heating Setpoint" command and enter a new value and say the "hold" option (and execute) then surely this counter would show my new value?
(4) I'm getting the occasional "Invalid message type:SM" message on the errors tab in Wizcomfort. I'm summising SM == Smartfit? Any ideas what the errors are and should i be concerned?
I've attached some wizcomfort screenshots.
Regards
Julian
Attachment: Smartfit tab.jpg (Downloaded 74 times) Last edited on Thursday Jul 12th, 2007 11:36 am by juwi_uk
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| Posted: Sunday Jul 15th, 2007 03:53 am |
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2nd Post |
ident
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There may be others who are more knowledgeable about the Smartfit operation than us. We implemented the Smartfit LESSST protocol according to the information supplied by Honeywell in the UK (under a Nondisclosure agreement)
Some of the parameters like Heating demand and hot water demand are not clear to us. The UCM Smartfit receives the information from the smartfit and delivers the contents to the assigned counters.
If you want I can let you know our smartfit contact so you can get more information directly
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| Posted: Sunday Jul 15th, 2007 08:32 am |
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3rd Post |
juwi_uk
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I'd be happy to email your contact as a last resort but surely you also need to take some responsibility for the functionality here too as people are paying money for this UCM/solution. You are going to be able to apply more presure to your Honeywell contact for information than I as a "mere mortal" user can!
Also I've been "playing" with this UCM for "5 minutes" but it's been released for a few years now (it's one of the interfaces that attracted me to choosing Comfort in the first place) so I can't believe I'm the only one to observe this.
It would be nice to tidy up this functionality and release an updated firmwhere, surely?
Regards
Julian
Last edited on Sunday Jul 15th, 2007 08:58 am by juwi_uk
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| Posted: Sunday Jul 15th, 2007 08:51 am |
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4th Post |
juwi_uk
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Interestingly enough for number (3) in my original post I've found that if I use the "override Heating Setpoint" command the new counter value doesn't go in "Override room temp setpoint" counter but instead seems to update the main "Room temp setpoint" counter instead.
Presumably why the "override" one is always zero value?
Julian
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| Posted: Tuesday Feb 10th, 2009 08:30 am |
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5th Post |
juwi_uk
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Hi
I've been looking into this more and want to try and understand what is going on here.
Re my point (1) below about the Room Temperature being 69 when the heating is not active (ie not demand). When heating is running/on the value correctly reports as the setting for the desired temperature I've set on the room unit, but when heating is off it shows 69.
So if i remote access the system (via telephone) I cant check the current setting.
(The hot water setpoint does work OK though you have to query it specifically for it to work. This is defined in the manual which is fine and I've added to the hourly response so it's roughly up to date; good enough for what I need!)
So given that the counter shows 69 how can I now debug further to see if either (a) the Smartfit room unit is reporting this value to Comfort, or (b) the value is reported correctly and it's the comfort firmware that's messing it up?
I want to crack this problem and know where the problem sits. Are there some commands for example I can sent on in UCM IO Monitor to test stuff out?
Help please.
J
Last edited on Tuesday Feb 10th, 2009 08:40 am by juwi_uk
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| Posted: Wednesday Feb 11th, 2009 12:42 pm |
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6th Post |
admin
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The best tool is the Comfort Bus Monitor (download from our software page)
This monitors communications on the Rs485 bus and will show all the messages passing between the UCM/Smartfit and Comfort. You need to use an Rs232 interface as the software does not support Ethernet
I just noticed your post from 2 years ago. I dont recall seeing this, probably the notifications were lost, so apologies for not having any replies. The UCM/Smartfit is not a popular item, yours may be the last one we sold, so not many of us are really familiar
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| Posted: Wednesday Feb 11th, 2009 01:03 pm |
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juwi_uk
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So presumably Comfort Bus Monitor would show me commands on the bus that set the counter values every x seconds, but I'd expect here that I'll just see the "69" value again which is wrong.
So there's no way I can debug the Smartfit UCM itself to see the LESSST command being sent out to Smartfit and Smartfit's response? I'm sure it's at this level I need to be looking.
I've emailed the contact at Honeywell I made contact with before 2 years back but he hasnt replied yet.
This is what he said 2 years back to my questions
"....
I'll see if I can answer your questions but it has been a number of years since I worked on the Smartfit system and I'm not familiar with the actual operation of the wizcomfort interface.
The setpoint transmitted by the room unit when Off has been selected has a specific value to indicate Off. In hexadecimal this value will be in the range 7E00 to 7EFF, and should be decoded as an Off value, Cytech should have this information.
The demand values for the hot water and heating are an indication of the amount of energy that the room unit wants the boiler to supply to the particular circuit. In the case of the heating the room unit will use a Proportional plus Integral control algorithm to calculate the amount of heat required so that the room temperature will remain at setpoint, 0% means no heat will be supplied, 100% means the boiler will be on full.
When the temperature is just below setpoint you're more likely to get a value between 0 and 100 in which case the Smartfit base unit will work out which proportion of a 10 minute cycle the boiler should be switched on. For the DHW control this is simply on and off with a differential so you will only ever see 0 or 100% values here.
On your Override Room Setpoint question, I'm guessing that it never comes up on the wizcomfort screen because it is looking for messages on the Smartfit bus and maybe ignoring the ones it generates itself. It looks like the message is getting through to the room unit ok though as the setpoint being used is updated.
I don't think you need to be too concerned about the occasional error message. All the Smartfit messages are repeated periodically so if some message didn't get through the system should sort itself out before any significant impact on the control operation could be observed.
Hopefully this will help a little, if you need me to go into more detail on the Smartfit system operation let me know and I'll see what I can do.
...."
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| Posted: Sunday Feb 15th, 2009 03:14 am |
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slychiu
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To summarise the answers to the Smartfit questions
The setpoint transmitted by the room unit when Off has been selected has a specific value to indicate Off. In hexadecimal this value will be in the range 7E00 to 7EFF, and should be decoded as an Off value, Cytech should have this information. According to Honeywell, the value reported for Room temp setpoint is not meaningful if the Heating is off. Comfort status has to report a number which in this case turns out to be 69
3) "Override room temp setpoint" counter. I've not ever seen a value ever go into this counter (in WizComfort). I'm using the Wizcomfort Smartfit tab to look and play with these settings easily right now. What would I need to do to see a value in here? Surely if I pick the "override Heating Setpoint" command and enter a new value and say the "hold" option (and execute) then surely this counter would show my new value?
I am afraid that is due to Wizcomfort not being updated. There is no counter now for Override Room Temperature setpoint, In the Smartfit manual Offset Counter 2 is designated as Reserved. The Override command does work but there is no status provided back from Smartfit to acknowledge the command
To confess, it has been a long time since we have looked at Smartfit and this seems to be true of Honeywell as well
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| Posted: Sunday Feb 15th, 2009 08:26 am |
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juwi_uk
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According to Honeywell, the value reported for Room temp setpoint is not meaningful if the Heating is off. Comfort status has to report a number which in this case turns out to be 69
OK so it's a bug in the LESSST protocol; that's all I needed to know. It's funny though they say heating Setpoint is not meaningful but for some reason the hot water setpoint IS (as this does report correctly). Hopefully you can help me with my workaround question that I asked in http://www.comfortforums.com/forum4/1342.html?
I am afraid that is due to Wizcomfort not being updated. There is no counter now for Override Room Temperature setpoint, In the Smartfit manual Offset Counter 2 is designated as Reserved. The Override command does work but there is no status provided back from Smartfit to acknowledge the command
OK I was reading the Smartfit Manual again and see you changed this too in revision 2.0.6 of the manual. Hopefully if you do update wizcomfort then you'll keep the Smartfit tab in even though it doesnt seem to be a mainstream product for you guys now. Can we expect a new whizzy .NET version of Wizcomfort ? 
Last edited on Sunday Feb 15th, 2009 08:30 am by juwi_uk
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