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4 Wire Smoke Detectors - None Working
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 Posted: Saturday Dec 15th, 2018 03:13 pm
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Krobar
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Found out today that worryingly none of the smoke detectors in my house work. I'm guessing the electrician who originally wired them did not get it right. 
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"These are the detectors: style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"https://www.apollo-fire.co.uk/getattachment/Products/Range/Series-65/Mounting-Bases/45681-201APO-Series-65-Diode-Base/20001999_0001.pdf style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"
style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"The alarm side wiring seems to be green and white connected to the zone input (One per detector) and red and black connected to 12V power, shunts set to 1-2 and Comfigurator Fire NC. I attach a picture of the detector side wiring; cant see any resistors anywhere. Can anyone see what might be wrong?

Attachment: SDWiring.jpg (Downloaded 33 times)



 Posted: Sunday Dec 16th, 2018 01:00 am
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slychiu
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Sorry cant see amy of yhe file attachments



 Posted: Sunday Dec 16th, 2018 08:20 am
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Swiss-Toni
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Is that a red wire going into the negative & where is the positive wire! looking at it does not look like this has been wired up with any power - + based on the colour of the cables that you have used and without a wiring diagram!

Last edited on Sunday Dec 16th, 2018 08:23 am by Swiss-Toni



 Posted: Sunday Dec 16th, 2018 04:11 pm
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Krobar
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Swiss-Toni wrote: Is that a red wire going into the negative & where is the positive wire! looking at it does not look like this has been wired up with any power - + based on the colour of the cables that you have used and without a wiring diagram!

Thanks for the reply.
The red goes into "-" on the PCB, the black wires goes into "L1In", these 2 are connected to 12V power on the Comfort. The White and green wires go into "NC" and "C" on the PCB and these are connected to the zone input on the Comfort. I tested 3 of the detectors with canned smoke and none reacted at all. Any ideas on how this should be wired?



 Posted: Monday Dec 17th, 2018 08:57 am
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Swiss-Toni
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I dont think you have wired that in correctly red should always be connected to + and if you are using comfort to supply power it will be to the 12V balck would go to - and on comfort com or neg, also you would need to check that comfort can handle the power requirements of the smoke alarm! if you ahve wired it back to front it will shut down your Comfort panel.....



 Posted: Monday Dec 17th, 2018 06:48 pm
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Firstly do you have the correct detectors set up with the correct comfort power see http://www.comfortforums.com/forum115/3537.html
Also smoke detectors are recommended to be replaced every 10 years.
Once you have sorted this out then ideally you need to have them wired EOL.
see wiring diagram attached.

Attachment: Fire alarm wiring schematic (Cytech EOL and Hochiki).pdf (Downloaded 3 times)



 Posted: Monday Dec 17th, 2018 07:50 pm
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Krobar
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So I checked the power wires Comfort side. Red is 12V (Not S12V) and black is Com.


I also found out the link above is not for the bases that are installed, the "12V Relay Base" is installed:
https://www.apollo-fire.co.uk/getattachment/Products/Range/Series-65/Relay-Bases/45681-508APO-Series-65-12V-Relay-Base/20002003_0001.pdf
The circuits shown in the link above look similar to the Hochiki ones (I think). Do I need the EOL resistors to make this work? (I'm not clear on what "Optional Power Supervision Relay" does)

Last edited on Monday Dec 17th, 2018 08:29 pm by Krobar



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 18th, 2018 02:26 pm
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Krobar
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Hi All,

I spoke to Apollo and they said it must have end of line termination added.

The Apollo tech said a resistor needs to be in place between L1out and the spare + terminal on the PCB. As far as I can tell this puts a resistor between the + and - on the power supply.

The tech said the resistor size is determined by the alarm manufacturer. 
I think this is the equivalent to 2.7K on the Hochiki diagramIf I follow the Hochiki diagram I also need a 4.7K on the zone wires (NC and C on the detector)

Last edited on Tuesday Dec 18th, 2018 02:42 pm by Krobar



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 18th, 2018 03:36 pm
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Krobar
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Update:
Adding the 2.7K resistor between L1Out and the + terminal on the PCB made them work :)
They seem to work regardless of if the 4.7K resistor between NC and C is present. Is this 4.7K resistor recommended?



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 18th, 2018 06:48 pm
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S12V WILL be required if you use a latching relay base....... Basically to 'unlatch' when activated.. If you use a latching base then you need a response ( triggered from a keypad shortcut key) to reset the smoke sensor.
Using the non latching base the sensor will reset itself every time it cycles its sensing.

------------------------------------
by putting the resistors into the circuit you will in effect enable a 'zone trouble' alert should anything go amiss with the cabling or set up. I,m not familiar with the apollo set up but this may mean ( for example) that a zone trouble is triggered when the head is detached from the base!

In all of our servicing and maintenance of Comfort alarms I dont think ive ever seen anybody other than ourselves use EOL for smoke alarms but its a necessity.



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 19th, 2018 01:22 am
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slychiu
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The is a useful connection diagram, did it comne from us?



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 19th, 2018 07:14 am
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Krobar
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slychiu wrote: The is a useful connection diagram, did it comne from us?

Not really; I pieced the info needed together from the comfort Hochiki diagram, the Apollo manual and a phone call with an Apollo tech.
For future reference this detector base and series works well with Comfort:https://www.apollo-fire.co.uk/products/range/series-65/relay-bases/45681-508apo-series-65-12v-relay-base
They default to non-latching and reset themselves, behaviour was perfect with the alarm sounding continuously for as long as there was smoke and resetting on its own, no need for jumper changes from default on either the detector or Comfort. 
Only tested this in one detector per zone config but this wiring should work for daisy chaining too:
Comfort to Detector:Comfort +12V to Apollo PCB 12VComfort Power Com to Apollo Edge L1InComfort zone wire to NC on Apollo PCBComfort zone wire to C on Apollo PCB
Last Detector Termination:2K7 Resistor L1Out on Apollo Edge to Apollo PCB 12V (Need this for it to work at all)4K7 Resistor between NC and C on Apollo PCB (This seems to allow detection between alarm and wiring fault)
Comfort Zone set to Fire NC



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 19th, 2018 07:16 am
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Krobar
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Instructions attached in text format; forum keeps ruining my formatting.

Attachment: Apollo Instructions.txt (Downloaded 3 times)



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