Comfort Automation/ Security System Forums > Third Party (interfacing to Comfort) > Zwave > Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGD-212 learned as a Multilevel Sensor |
Comfort Automation/ Security System Forums > Third Party (interfacing to Comfort) > Zwave > Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGD-212 learned as a Multilevel Sensor |
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LeeBurley UCM Pi Users
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I have a working Fibaro Relay Module, so I know that the Comfort ZWave interface works ok. I am trying to include my Fibaro Dimmer 2 (FGD-212) into my Comfort System. The sensor register reads the power figures from the bulbs, but there doesn't seem to be a way of controlling them - however they work fine from Vera. Looking at the Comfort Manuals, I would have thought they would be sensed as a Multilevel Multichannel Switch but they are showing as a Multilevel Sensor. See attached screenshot. When I do a response to control them I am only given the choice of a Basic Get, a Basic Set and a Multichannel Get Is this why I can read the power sensor but not control them and how would I fix this? Attachment: XWave.jpg (Downloaded 117 times) |
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slychiu Administrator 
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The screenshot shows that the device is a Multilevel Sensor. The device type is set by the manufacturer. You have mapped it to a counter. You should be able to control it by
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LeeBurley UCM Pi Users
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Hi, When I load a counter with a value the lights do not respond and stay off. I have tried 255, 99, 80 and other values. Strangely, after trying to set it with a counter the light then wont stay on with Vera - it just goes on for a moment then goes off again. If I manually use the switch everything settles down again but comfort cant control it. |
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Ingo UCM Pi Users 
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Make sure you have the latest UCM/Zwave firmware. |
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LeeBurley UCM Pi Users
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Its on 7.072 which is the latest I think. If I set a counter on the Fibaro relay it works as expected, so it only the dimmers I am having major problems with. Last edited on Tuesday Dec 1st, 2015 11:53 pm by LeeBurley |
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leonchue Cytech
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Does the dimmer's counter value shows the value correctly, whenever dimmer state changes (eg. control the switch manually) ? Make sure that dimmer's counter is not used for other purposes elsewhere. Other than upgrading UCM/Zwave to the latest version, it is best that Comfort Main is using the latest version too. Also you can do a "Learn" operation again, so that the Z-Wave network recompute its route table. Take note that you do NOT need to "Reset" to default, before doing so. |
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LeeBurley UCM Pi Users
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leonchue wrote: Does the dimmer's counter value shows the value correctly, whenever dimmer state changes (eg. control the switch manually) ? Make sure that dimmer's counter is not used for other purposes elsewhere. Hi, Comfort and all its UCMs/RIO/KPs are at the latest firmware When the switch is operated manually or through Vera the value in the counter is not updated, but the value of power usage is updated in the sensor I have tried another learn and nothing has improved. |
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leonchue Cytech
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This is strange. Try unassigned sensor and leaving the only the counter assigned. See if the latter gets update. Also have you tried clicking on the right buttons ("Switch Device On" and "Switch Device Off"), to see if the device reacts? If still fails, send your latest cclx file to support@cytech.biz . Hopefully we can find something out. Attachment: ZWave.jpg (Downloaded 99 times) |
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LeeBurley UCM Pi Users
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I unassigned the sensor so that only the counter remained. The light still doesn't work, and the on and off buttons also do not respond. I am sending you my cclx file on email. Thanks! |
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leonchue Cytech
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The attached FGD-212 information is extracted from http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/750 As you can see, the multilevel sensor command class transmission is in "non secure" method and basic command class is in "secure" method. All this is consistent with what LeeBurley is experiencing. Since UCM/Zwave does not support secure transmission, therefore Comfort sensor register gets updated while counter register does not. Also UCM/Zwave cannot control FGD-212 on/off and dimming. In short, Fibaro Dimmer FGD-212 cannot work with our UCM/Zwave. This is because some command classes are transmitted in "secure" method, including the commonly used Basic command class. FGD-212 will have difficulties working with many other controllers and devices, as most do not support secure transmission. Attachment: FGD-212.png (Downloaded 91 times) |
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juwi_uk Member 
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Hi Leon This is going to be a problem moving forwards then as all of the Fibaro units seem to be moving to the new version "2" models that are Z-Wave Plus certified and support power monitoring and OTA upgrading etc. Surely if Vera can support such comms then Comfort needs to, and should be able to, as well if you are to keep up with the world. Has anyone asked Fibaro why it is like this? What does that pepper.net report for the previous generation dimmers as I'd like to see the difference. ie the FGD-211. Also does the Roller Shutter 2 (FGR-222) for example have the same issue? Ju |
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leonchue Cytech
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FGD-211 (old dimmer) http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/334 FGS-222 (Double relay switch) http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/639 FGRM-222 (Roller shutter 2) http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/492 All three do not use secure transmission.  |
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juwi_uk Member
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Then maybe Cytech can ask Fibaro where their roadmap is heading then in this area as your are more likely to get an answer that us mere "Joe Public" mortals!  Still think if Vera can support then Cytech needs to as well as it suggested their support for functionality of ZWave devices goes deeper. Last edited on Friday Dec 4th, 2015 01:23 pm by juwi_uk |
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slychiu Administrator
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Vera is a software that is specifically designed for Zwave. Comfort supports many different systems including Cbus, KNX, Zwave, eHomeGreen, etc as an embedded solution so it is not comparable. We will not be able to support the hundred of classes which are defined by Zwave which includes many rarely used classes, otherwise our R&D will have no time for other work, just keeping up with Zwave changes. The "Basic Set" command in Zwave was supposed to be supported by All Zwave devices. Now there is a device which does NOT support basic set command unless it is encrypted. Why is this necessary for a dimmer? This sort of "feature" will be incompatible with 99 % of controllers, and put an end to the inter-operablity of Zwave so it seems to be a backward step. We recommend that Zwave devices with the standard functions like dimmers, switches, relays, sensors be used with UCM/Zwave not those devices which implement non standard or non-compatible features as these cannot be supported. We will have to list what are the products which do not work with UCM/Zwave So FGD-212 (Fibaro Dimmer 2) is not compatible with UCM/Zwave. There are other zwave dimmers which can be used instead. |
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juwi_uk Member
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Hi I started the discussion on the Fibaro forum and they have replied (see link below). Seems to me their argument is sound and depends on what mode you run your primary controller. Maybe you can join the conversation too in reply to their response and my original question. That said it seems to me that Cytech need to suppory secure mode asap if this UCM is to keep up. Ju http://forum.fibaro.com/index.php?/topic/20143-update-hc2-4059-beta/page-6#entry78796 |
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slychiu Administrator
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What I understand from that post is that you need to include the device in Nonsecure mode in HC2 if you want other nonsecure controllers to work with it, which seems like the best way to fix this , rather than have UCM/Zwave support secure mode to control a dimmer. I dont see why you would need to have encryption for a dimmer By the way there may be other problems in using encryption because there are many more messages between the devices in order to learn and communicate. This may be problematic if you have more than a few devices. |
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leonchue Cytech
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juwi_uk wrote: Hi With reference to your link, this is my view on the reply. Even if dimmer 2 can "re-included in HC2 and this time do not use secure mode", it will make not much difference. The dimmer 2 firmware is programmed to do Basic command class (and some others) transmissions in secure mode only. Maybe someone can try out to see if this is true. Also need to point out one more issue. Although dimmer 2 can control other devices in non-secure mode via association, other devices (such as their own dimmer v1) cannot control dimmer 2 via association. This is because other devices (dimmer v1) do not support secure command class. It is only 1 way control. |
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juwi_uk Member
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Perhaps you could post on the Fibaro forum Leon or get confirmation of your assumption because at the moment it's looking like I'll need to retire my UCM too and just use the Fibaro HC2 for automation for now then as this is obviously the way they are going with their units for some reason or another.Ju |
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bagushandhoko Member
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I have same problem. My system using 92 output plus 15 lamp group controlled by FGD 212 . The system just installed . I have no option instead using FGD 212 ... because the only zwave dimmer that can control trailing edge dimming protocol for my philips lamp . So its very dispointed ..the ucm not compatible .. this make the reason why i choose comfort because its strenght as integrator become gone  |
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slychiu Administrator
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It is not possible or practical for UCM/Zwave to support all known Z-Wave classes, and more are introduced all the time. Hence you have to ensure that if you want the whole Z-wave network to be supported by UCM/Zwave, it is necessary to check what classes are required for the device. The constant changes in my opinion will only lead to the fragmentation of the standard in that other controllers will not be able to support these new devices. In contrast, CBus and KNX have a protocol which is stable but at the same time support a huge variety of products and manufacturers (in the case of KNX) If you have no option but to use this FGD 212 which requires encryption for dimming (which seems illogical) because no other Z-wave device supports trailing edge dimming, then dont you think it is a problem of not having other manufacturers of trailing edge dimmers available in Z-Wave instead of the fault of UCM/Zwave of not supporting encryption for dimmers? |
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bagushandhoko Member
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Yes you make point regarding this matter. But on the other hand when i chose comfort one of the reason because knowing it has ucm zwave as hub to zwave network .. i expect there is no issue about incompatibility.. all my lamps in my under construction house using the latest led module of philips ( very effecient in energy compare with led lamp in the market recently ) with new dimming driver that use trailing edge... so i need dimming controlled to communicate with comfort and i chose zwave .... all the lamps, comfort with 6 SEM and its local expansion, GSM ucm, 25 dimmer controllers including 15 fibaro FGD 212, all sensor alarm, IR beam etc just installed... no point of return ... But last night i read the link given above and manual of FGD 212 ... seem that FGD 212 has inclusion option to disable secure mode to enable other device communicate by unsecure methode.. if i am not misunderstood ...i havent had time to test it ... i hope this can solve the issue with comfort |
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juwi_uk Member
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Chiu, From what I'm reading is does say that you cant control the device in non-secure mode from what I read. ie "... If you want to control Dimmer 2 in non-secure mode you should re-include it in HC2 and this time do not use Security Mode...." So to me it supports both but driven by how you include it in the first place. Surely to be able to support either scenario the UCM just needs to support one more class; the "secure" class doesn't it? Ju Last edited on Thursday Dec 17th, 2015 08:49 pm by juwi_uk |
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slychiu Administrator
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"... If you want to control Dimmer 2 in non-secure mode you should re-include it in HC2 and this time do not use Security Mode...." This is what someone on their forum says (not sure if it is a fibaro guy or a user) However the test lab report says (see Leons screenshot) this device works only in Secure mode so it is a contradiction. Hence only someone who has the device can verify it by including in non-secure mode. If it is really true that it can work only in secure mode that will be a problem for many other devices as they will not be able to associate with this in secure mode |
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juwi_uk Member
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This is what someone on their forum says (not sure if it is a fibaro guy or a user) However the test lab report says (see Leons screenshot) this device works only in Secure mode so it is a contradiction. Hence only someone who has the device can verify it by including in non-secure mode. If it is really true that it can work only in secure mode that will be a problem for many other devices as they will not be able to associate with this in secure mode So I asked this question on the Fibaro Forum and the reply came back as Security is mandatory for new Z-Wave+ devices. So device which uses ZW+ Chip must implement this feature. But, it is up to user how device will be included. In HC2/HCL before inclusion process you can decide - secure or non-secure inclusion. Also it is possible to include new Dimmer in secure mode and control directly other devices in network (non-secure ones) via associations but it is necessary to change one of advanced parameters in device's configuration. |
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bagushandhoko Member
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Chiu, Your system is very powerfull as integrator system ( instead of great and security one ) as your customer i hope comfort willing to accommodate as much as possible in zwave world development, especially if this issues related with Zwave+ .... in order to make your market position also powerfull for integration with the zwave network |
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leonchue Cytech
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Hi juwi_uk, You should also ask "If FGD-212 is done in non-secure inclusion, can other non-secure devices control FGD-212 directly, via association too?". This is to confirm it is not a one way control only. |
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leonchue Cytech
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juwi_uk wrote:Security is mandatory for new Z-Wave+ devices. So device which uses ZW+ Chip must implement this feature. Point to note that the above statement is misleading. Security is only mandatory for new Z-Wave+ Controllers. Other Z-Wave+ devices will depend on their own specifications or applications. |
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MDKKEN Member
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Hi I just want to clarify regarding ZWave plus standard modules. ZWave UCM should work with any ZWave plus module as long as the module does not encrypt its messages. So Fibaro ZWave plus Dimmer will not work at it encrypts its messages whereas Qubino Flush Dimmer ZWave Plus should work as it does not encrypt. please see http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/866. More over, its dimming abilities for LEDs is better than the fibaro. For the UK it does require a neutral wire so wall mounted switches with only switched live it will not work. HOWEVER, this module can be placed in the ceiling rose where there is neutral so can still be used with a momentary switch. I think is the case and make clear. |
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bagushandhoko Member
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Its not clear support trailing edge dimming protocol as i need |
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slychiu Administrator
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UCM/Zwave will work with any zwave plus device except for the new zwave plus features including encryption. It imay not just be encryption that is different Zwave should have made it a requirement that all zwave plus devices must have a mode that supports older devices, for the sake of compatibility |
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MDKKEN Member
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Hi, Just to make clear
It will work if commands are not encrypted and the commands are the ones you support, Is that correct However the commands UCM Zwave are the most useful one and therefore usable on or off dimming etc
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MDKKEN Member
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Hi, Just to make clear
It will work if commands are not encrypted and the commands are the ones you support, Is that correct However the commands UCM Zwave are the most useful one and therefore usable on or off dimming etc
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MDKKEN Member
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For review of QUBINO dimming module see http://www.vesternet.com/blog/2015/05/awesome-qubino-z-wave-range-stock-at-vesternet/ |
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slychiu Administrator
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Correct that in most cases Zwave plus devices is not a problem But see the example of Fibaro FGD212 where the dimming commands are encrypted |
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bagushandhoko Member
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thanks MDKKEN ... this information too late for me ... just installed 15 Fibaro dimmers + Fibaro controller ( inside comfort network with full 5 Slave Expansion+ LEM ) ... plus UCM zwave for as bridge ... so become useless automation ... This is my mistake choose wrong system Last edited on Wednesday Feb 3rd, 2016 11:22 am by bagushandhoko |
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muddymickey Member
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I recently purchased a Fibaro FGD-212 dimmer, to start replacing some unreliable X10 micro modules. I can successfully control it via Domoticz running on a Raspberry Pi, using an Aeotec Z-Stick Gen 5 as the primary controller. I also recently purchased a Z-Wave UCM for Comfort and fitted it, as I want to operate my lights based on PIR sensors via Comfort (as I did with X10). I've just updated the main Comfort firmware from 5-something to 7.093. The Z-Wave UCM is running firmware 7.013. I also have a USB UCM running firmware 5.178.Comfigurator reports version 3.10.11.0. Comfort has learned the Z-Wave configuration OK from the primary controller, I can see the Fibaro as a "Routing_Slave-Power_Switch_Multilevel" with node type of "MultiLevel Sensor". The "Switch Device On" and "Switch Device Off" buttons in Comfigurator DO work OK. "Switch Device On" causes the dimmer to turn on at the last dim level (which was set either via Domoticz or the momentary wall switches). Presumably if Comfort can turn the lights on and off via these buttons in Comfigurator, I should be able to do the same in a response somehow ? However, the only Z-Wave command I can choose in a response is a "Basic Get Command". Any suggestions ? |
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leonchue Cytech
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muddymickey wrote:However, the only Z-Wave command I can choose in a response is a "Basic Get Command". Have you try to click on the "Basic Get Command" and reveal a drop-down arrow? Click on the arrow to see "Basic Set Command" in the list. See example as attached. Attachment: getset.png (Downloaded 28 times) |
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bagushandhoko Member
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Hi Muddymickey .. its good news for me that you could control FGD 212 from comfort ... have you changed the security association method when connect to aeotec ? |
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slychiu Administrator
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If your ucm is 5.178 how did you upgrade the comfort firmware to version 7? Did you use the UCM firmware cable? If so you should also upgrade the Zwave firmware to the latest which is more than 7.013 but I do not recall exactly If possible upgrade the UCM 5.178 to version 7 using another UCM so that in future you do not have to use the upgrade cable |
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muddymickey Member
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slychiu wrote: If your ucm is 5.178 how did you upgrade the comfort firmware to version 7?Yes I had to buy the programming cable. I have two UCMs: Z-Wave (firmware 7.013) USB (firmware 5.178) How do I upgrade my USB UCM ? Also - not sure if this is related or not - but since doing this work yesterday, my keypad is constantly showing "UCM3 communication failure". |
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muddymickey Member
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bagushandhoko wrote: Hi Muddymickey .. its good news for me that you could control FGD 212 from comfort ... have you changed the security association method when connect to aeotec ?Um, no I don't think I did - haven't changed any security settings on the FGD-212. I just included it as a non-secure device via Domoticz. All I know is that from the buttons in Comfigurator I can switch on and off. Not sure if I'll be able to send dimming commands or not yet. Maybe this is due to my Z-Wave firmware ? Just for info I'm not a pro with Comfort, just a selfbuilder who likes tinkering, so am still figuring stuff out |
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muddymickey Member
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leonchue wrote: muddymickey wrote:I'm 90% sure I tried that. But I'll have another look tonight just to be sure.However, the only Z-Wave command I can choose in a response is a "Basic Get Command". |
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tech07 Administrator
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I have two UCMs: Z-Wave (firmware 7.013) USB (firmware 5.178) How do I upgrade my USB UCM ? You need another UCM to upgrade the UCM 5.178 using the programming cableThe programming cable can be used to upgrade another device but not itself I suggest you ask the supplier of your comfort to do the upgrade for you by sending them the UCM or making a trip to their office Also - not sure if this is related or not - but since doing this work yesterday, my keypad is constantly showing "UCM3 communication failure". That means you have 3 UCMs in the configuration but the 3rd UCM is not connected Do a Scan for Modules and look at the result and write to Comfort again |
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muddymickey Member
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Can I somehow use the Z-wave UCM to upgrade my USB UCM ? Swap the daughterboards around or something like that ? |
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muddymickey Member
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tech07 wrote:OK, will give that a go tonight, thanks. |
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slychiu Administrator
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I'm afraid that doesn't work |
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muddymickey Member
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slychiu wrote: I'm afraid that doesn't workWhat doesn't - the daughterboard switching ? |
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slychiu Administrator
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Switching daughter boards makes both ucms nonfunctional You need another General ucm to upgrade a general ucm via the programming cable Once the ucm is upgraded to v7 it can upgrade its own firmware as well as other devices without needing the cable |
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muddymickey Member
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Looks like I misunderstood. When one refers to say, UCM/USB having firmware 5.178 - is this the firmware on the UCM06 motherboard, or the firmware of the USB daughterboard ? So, given the parts I have, there is no way I can update the UCM firmware myself ? |
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muddymickey Member
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Could I do this: 1) Buy an ETH03 daughterboard, and temporarily fit in in place of the Z-Wave daughterboard 2) Use it to update the UCM/USB firmware with the cable 3) Refit the Z-Wave daughterboard 4) Remove the USB daughterboard and fit the ETH03 daughterboard So I end up with: 1 x UCM/Z-Wave 1 x UCM/ETH03 Or have I completely missed the point I'm half considering an ethernet interface, so wondered if this could be a cost-effective route to it. Last edited on Monday Feb 22nd, 2016 07:11 pm by muddymickey |
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juwi_uk Member
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I don't think you can do that; ie change a UCM/ZWave to UCM/Gen just by changing the daughter card as the upgrade will prevent you "upgrading" from ZWave type to GEN type. |
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bagushandhoko Member
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muddymickey wrote: bagushandhoko wrote:Hi Muddymickey .. its good news for me that you could control FGD 212 from comfort ... have you changed the security association method when connect to aeotec ?Um, no I don't think I did - haven't changed any security settings on the FGD-212. I just included it as a non-secure device via Domoticz. similar with me ... it just setting for my own house .. IT is my hobby. So the aeotec is the primary control , isnt it ? when include FGD 212 to comfort... it detect from aeotecs or domoticz ? |
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muddymickey Member
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Yes the Aeotec is the primary controller.I added the FGD-212 via Domoticz on the Raspberry Pi. I couldn't get it to add for ages, and it turned out that when pressing the light switch 3 times on the FGD-212 to make it available for inclusion, I was pressing the button too quickly. Once I slowed the button presses down, it was included straight away. I think you can include devices direct from the Aeotec Z-stick itself, but haven't looked into that. |
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muddymickey Member
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juwi_uk wrote: I don't think you can do that; ie change a UCM/ZWave to UCM/Gen just by changing the daughter card as the upgrade will prevent you "upgrading" from ZWave type to GEN type. Ah right, think I understand now. While fitting the UCM/Z-wave, I thought the base PCB looked the same as the base PCB of the UCM/USB, so I assumed they both shared a common base UCM board. Guess not  It's quite annoying as I really want to update to latest Z-Wave firmware to see if the Fibaro FGD-212 will work, but it seems I have no way to do it myself. |
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juwi_uk Member
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Hi They are the same hardware but Cytech stop you cross upgrading in the firmware upgrade utility as you can only upgrade like type to same type. Where do you live; county in UK? Ju |
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muddymickey Member
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Live in Derbyshire, work in Cheshire (Stockport). |
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muddymickey Member
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Have been in touch with Laser Business systems (who I bought the programming cable from recently to upgrade the main board). They'll update the UCM/USB firmware for me if I post it to them. Once I've got that sorted, and have updated the UCM/Z-Wave to latest firmware, I'll see if I get any further with the FGD-212. |
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muddymickey Member
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Right, I'm back. First a massive thankyou to Laser Business Systems. I posted off my UCM at Wednesday lunchtime, received it back today (Friday) morning. Superfast turnaround, all free of charge. They wouldn't even accept my offer to pay the return postage. Service like that deserves mentioning. Anyway, back to Z-Wave and the FGD-212. I've now updated my Z-Wave UCM to firmware 7.072. And using a counter, I can now use a response to set the dimming level of a light using the FGD-212 ! If I set my counter to a value of, say 5 - and click "execute response" - lights come on dim. If I set my counter to a value of 99, and click "execute response" - lights come on bright. So the FGD-212 can work However, I have to use a counter. I can't use a Z-Wave action, as the only action available to me is a Basic Get command. Have double-checked, no other options are in the drop-down menu. Is this expected ? |
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juwi_uk Member
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Does it show as "Power_Switch_Multilevel" when displayed on the ZWave Mapping tab as the older Fibaro dimmers do? |
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tech07 Administrator
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I am not sure why set is not pssible but Using a counter to set dim level is more useful than fixed action.This means you can change counter value based on different conditions to set the dimming level, and you can use the comfort app to set the dmming level Note that the counter values for dimming Zwave is 0 to 255, not 0 to 99255 is fully on.0 to 254 counter value is converted to 0 to 99 zwave level, and vice versa for status from zwave. This is so that using the Comfort app, the slider using Counter feedback type will work for dimming and status for Zwave the same way as Cbus and KNX, ie full scale is 255 |
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