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lwillerton
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Hi All,

I am trying to associate an everspring sp103 PIR with a comfort virtual node. My main controller is veralite which can see the virtual node or at leaste something of the same ID (I have called it virtual node by typing in manually) created by comfort, but it can’t populate the information the controller required to complete the setup, therefore vera states “failed at: Getting manufacturer”

Comfort info

z-wave properties

chip version 1

controller type bridge controller

module info 3.52

Has anybody managed to make an association to a virtual node with this config?

If so what is the process?

I have done this in the past with homeseers, aeon labs z-stick 2 and comfort.

Best Regards

Lee

Attachment: VN comfort.PNG (Downloaded 74 times)

lwillerton
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Pic2

Attachment: VN comfort1.PNG (Downloaded 73 times)

lwillerton
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Pic3

Attachment: VN comfort2.PNG (Downloaded 73 times)

lwillerton
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Attachment: VN comfort3.PNG (Downloaded 75 times)

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Pic 5

Attachment: VN comfort4.PNG (Downloaded 74 times)

lwillerton
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To make the association in vera you go in to the device and setup a group id and the associate another device.

Attachment: es103.PNG (Downloaded 73 times)

lwillerton
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lwillerton
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If I try this I get a message failed to associate

Attachment: es103-2.PNG (Downloaded 75 times)

lwillerton
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Pic3

Attachment: es103-1.PNG (Downloaded 73 times)

leonchue
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"but it can’t populate the information the controller required to complete the setup, therefore vera states “failed at: Getting manufacturer”" 
Maybe you should ask VeraLite what this problem is about.  

Did you try associating physical devices with PIR also?  Does it work?  

What group ID (under Associations section) did you enter for PIR?

Last edited on Wednesday Oct 8th, 2014 04:34 am by leonchue

lwillerton
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Hi

I have done a physical association and the PIR triggered the light it was associated to.

So I have downloaded homeseers trial again and added my aeon labs z-stick 2 as a secondary controller.

When the network transfer took place I got this information


Oct-09 17:39:38
 
Z-Wave Warning
Node 25 supports the MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC command class but manufacturer information was not obtained. Cannot continue with this node.



So I am back to thinking that the virtual node info is missing detail.

I have tried a few groups, I am not sure what the group represents

I have had a little sucsess and I will follow this post with more info via pic's

The attached shows node 26 triggered in homeseers but node 25 doesn't change state

Cheers

Lee 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attachment: hs.PNG (Downloaded 55 times)

lwillerton
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So in home seers we can see the association seems to to have worked (I did manage to get HS the aeon labs and comfort to work about 6 months ago)

the next couple of pic shows a connection test in for node 25 and 26 which complete sucsessfully, so in theory when node 26 is triggered node 25 should change state, but it doesen't.

Therefore, I believe the is a level of comms but there is someting missing overall in the data packets flowing between node 25 and 26

Attachment: hs1.PNG (Downloaded 54 times)

lwillerton
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So in home seers we can see the association seems to to have worked (I did manage to get HS the aeon labs and comfort to work about 6 months ago)

the next couple of pic shows a connection test in for node 25 and 26 which complete sucsessfully, so in theory when node 26 is triggered node 25 should change state, but it doesen't.

Therefore, I believe the is a level of comms but there is someting missing overall in the data packets flowing between node 25 and 26

Attachment: hs1.PNG (Downloaded 54 times)

lwillerton
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pic

Attachment: HS2.PNG (Downloaded 54 times)

lwillerton
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lwillerton
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I have not yet contacted vera will try over the weekend, but this is the info from my z-wave supplier

Hi Lee,



I'm not sure that this will work in VERA - not convinced it will work with any Z-Wave environment.


Firstly, lets just confirm terminology as you may be using 'Association' in different ways.


Association in Z-Wave terms means that you 'pair' two Z-Wave devices together so that they can communicate directly, without any traffic going through the controller, we have a Knowledgebase explaining this - http://www.vesternet.com/knowledgebase/technical/kb-27


So in this case, it would be an association between the PIR and a dimmer (or relay) - the PIR would detect motion and then turn the dimmer on, then off again when no motion is detected, the example in this guide shows just that - http://www.vesternet.com/resources/application-notes/apnt-15


But in your case you're trying to associate it with a virtual device, and I don't see how that can work as it is not a physical device. For VERA to add the association, both devices have to be on the VERA network, then VERA talks to the device you wish to associate the PIR with and sets the association in that device (for battery devices they have to be awake to accept this association). But with a Virtual device, this cannot happen as it is not a real Z-Wave device with the correct characteristics.


How is the Comfort Virtual Node shown in VERA - is it shown as a Virtual device or some other device?


If the Virtual node is showing in VERA, then the easy way would be to have the PIR trigger a VERA scene and then the Scene will activate the Virtual node - this is how you'd do it with a normal virtual device in VERA - we do the same thing for LightwaveRF devices in VERA - you have the Z-Wave device trigger a scene to control the LightwaveRF device as they can't speak directly.


Does that make sense?

lwillerton
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Oh if I click audit nod 25 I get this info

Attachment: hs4.PNG (Downloaded 54 times)

leonchue
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It looks like the virtual node has a bug, concerning the Manufacturer query.  We will investigate on this.

Nevertheless, it should not cause any problem on other operations, including the association process.  

Can you confirm that the virtual node can be switch off and on, using Vera control (as attached)?

Attachment: VN.png (Downloaded 50 times)

leonchue
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"I have done a physical association and the PIR triggered the light it was associated to.
So I have downloaded homeseers trial again and added my aeon labs z-stick 2 as a secondary controller."

The physical association here is done via Homeseers?  Not Vera?


"I have tried a few groups, I am not sure what the group represents
I have had a little sucsess and I will follow this post with more info via pic's"

I have downloaded and read the Everspring SP103 manual.  Since SP103 supports only 1 association group with 5 nodes, my best bet will be  '1' for the Group ID field in Vera.  Please try it and let me know.  ;)

Attachment: es102-1.PNG (Downloaded 47 times)

Last edited on Friday Oct 10th, 2014 09:55 am by leonchue

leonchue
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As shown in your attachment, there is an error message (in brown) "... Node 26 is not a normally listening node, and an attempt to communicate with it has failed....".  So my guess is that the association did not materialised and it is not due to virtual node manufacturer info problem.

Battery operated device has the problem of "falling asleep", in order to save power.  So likely that Homeseers reported this error, when attempting to associate and the sensor device is in "sleep" mode.  So what you need to do is to make sure the device stay awaken during the association process.  

The SP103 manual says "The Motion Detector will stay “awake” for ten minutes when changing the status of tamper switch from being pressed to be released or from being released to be pressed to allow time for configuration." 

lwillerton
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Hi

I did the physical association in Vera connecting to the outside lights and that worked fine.

I have the PIR next to me with no back on and as you suggest I just pick it up off the table which triggers the wake up process.

I will try group one over the weekend, do you think I need to fill in Vera info as well as HS?

I think the association has worked in HS, however, this all depends on if the status change on node 25 my cytech virtual node is dependant on a response back from the virtual node (VN). I can see the status change on the PIR but the VN remains off.

I can trigger the VN manually in both Vera and HS and I get a status change on both interfaces. I have setup the VN in comfort as a virtual input but whatever I use as the on or off response doesn't work.


Thanks for all your help, I am sure it will work at some point just a matter of getting the right process sorted.

Cheers

Lee

lwillerton
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sorry should have asked what info describes the VN. In both HS and Vera it has been setup as a dimmer switch.

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"In both HS and Vera it has been setup as a dimmer switch."
In my opinion, dimmer switch is good enough, as long as the VN responds correctly.  ;)

"I have setup the VN in comfort as a virtual input but whatever I use as the on or off response doesn't work."
Other than writing to UCM/Zwave EEPROM, make sure you write to Comfort (Zones/Inputs) as well.

You can monitor the zone status in Comfigurator.  Under Zones/Inputs, select the zone and check "Show Status"(Zone Properties on the right).  The "Zone State" will display the current state.

lwillerton
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Hi,

I have not got much further with this, however, I would just like to confirm that when I change state of the VN using either HS or Vera they show a graphical status change (on or off)

Unfortunately if I monitor the virtual input it remains inactive at all times.

In normal association processes you would normally would put the controller in to association mode and the hit the send button in comfigurator to confirm the association. However, the way HS and Vera do this it seems to all be done in software without the need to press buttons.

Cheers

Lee

lwillerton
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Oh I have tried group one and no difference.

Do you have Vera in the cytech lab if so have you managed to to an association?

leonchue
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lwillerton wrote: In normal association processes you would normally would put the controller in to association mode and the hit the send button in comfigurator to confirm the association. However, the way HS and Vera do this it seems to all be done in software without the need to press buttons.
Actually, association is to program association setting in the source (triggering) node only and not on the target nodes.
  
For (remote) controller operation, the send button is to indicate which node to be added in association mode, before programming the source node.  

As users can select the nodes in HS and Vera already, hence the send button to indicate which node is not necessary anymore.  

Last edited on Wednesday Oct 15th, 2014 04:49 am by leonchue

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lwillerton wrote: Oh I have tried group one and no difference.

Do you have Vera in the cytech lab if so have you managed to to an association?

We managed to source a Vera Lite to test it out.  We have no problem in getting virtual node to work after association.  

However, we confirmed that the manufacturer query for virtual node has a bug and will patch that in the next release.

My guess is that SP103 is not associated properly.  Did you trigger its tamper switch to keep the RF(Z-Wave) awake for 10 mins when doing association?  The RF side may be switched off when you do the association process. 

lwillerton
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Ok I am just sitting with the setup now and I am please to see that I am doing things right.
So what I have found out tonight is if I setup the association in Vera (main controller) and click update on HS on the PIR node it pulls the association information through.
Both HS and Vera show a status change of the PIR in sync the only thing is the status of the comfort VN doesn't change in any of the systems.
If I go in to comfort Under Zones/Inputs, select the zone and check "Show Status"(Zone Properties on the right).  The "Zone State" will display the current state. and tick and untick the box it always remains inactive :(

I am confident that the association is working in principle its just not updating comfort. By all accounts I should not need to write to the eprom after and new association is created, but I have tried this on several occasions.

Last edited on Wednesday Oct 15th, 2014 05:03 am by lwillerton

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If you click virtual node on/off in Vera or HS, does the zone state change?

lwillerton
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yes but not in comfort

lwillerton
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Just done a learn from vera in to comfort and uploaded to eprom, no change

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For trouble-shooting, change the virtual node mapping to a counter.  Write EEPROM.  Read EEPROM to confirm changes.

Then trigger VN via Vera/HS again.  See if that counter changes state.

Last edited on Wednesday Oct 15th, 2014 05:20 am by leonchue

lwillerton
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Nice one...that works I can see the value change from 0 to 255 when the PIR is triggered.

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That is great!  We are so close now.

Now revert VN mapping back to Virtual Input.  Remember to write UCM/Zwave and Comfort. 

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OK done that and back to no status change...I have assigned to input 18 and checked.

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lwillerton wrote: OK done that and back to no status change...I have assigned to input 18 and checked.
Did you program zone type for 18 as well?  If it is blank, the zone is ignored and status is not updated.  ;) 
Otherwise, zone 18 operates as what it is, be it security or automation. 

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Hi,
It looks like I have removed this setting so will give it a go tonight. Will Zone type Monitor N/C or N/O do? 
Cheers

Lee

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lwillerton wrote: Hi,
It looks like I have removed this setting so will give it a go tonight. Will Zone type Monitor N/C or N/O do? 
Cheers

Lee


It depends on what you want to achieve.  

Monitor N/C or N/0 triggers FamilyCare alarm in all security modes (by default).  So I am not sure if that is really what you want.

Maybe you can test with "SwitchNO" or "SwitchNC" first.  ;)

Last edited on Wednesday Oct 15th, 2014 11:23 am by leonchue

lwillerton
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It's worked thank you so much...so what do you think caused the problem?

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lwillerton wrote: It's worked thank you so much...so what do you think caused the problem?
That's great.  

The problem?  Initially, it was the unsuccessful association with VeraLite.  After that, the virtual input was not validated in Comfort (without setting zone type).

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Hi All,

I have been fighting with Vera Lite and associations again. I seem to recall that I did the association in Homeseers in the end but really can't remember..

With easy Vera U15 can setup associations with physical devices so a fibaro door/window sensor will associate with fibaro dual relay using group 1 in vera.

However, if I setup an association with a virtual node from comfort it fails. I like vera seems like a solid controller, but if anyone has a better suggestion for a more suitable controller I might have to give it a go.

The frustrating thing is leon seemed to get vera to associate with ease back at base.

Best Wishes

Lee


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