| Posted: Tuesday Jan 3rd, 2012 06:30 pm |
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Lets run this one by the forum.
Its part of a discussion that i picked up on on Linkedin regarding Smart Homes and the slow/poor take up of such technology.
What was being suggested is that your home automation 'does not work' because it involves to much interaction between the customers needs/requirements and the programmer (either the customer if he takes control himself or the installer). Following on from this the author suggested that with the level of intelligence now available in software such as is available in Siri perhaps 'the system' should be 'intelligent' enough to sort out/suggest features for the customer based on.... well knowledge gained from the system.
So for example the system intelligence is such that it knows when someone is in or out of the house (armed or disarmed). If the system is normally armed for 8 hours max and then gets armed for 12 hours may be 'the system' contacts its owner to ask "you have been away from our home for over 8 hours would you like me to arm to holiday mode?".
Perhaps not the best example but you get the idea, the possibilities are endless. We work with a MAC consultant and i'm sure that the Siri / apple type codes will soon become available..
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| Posted: Wednesday Jan 4th, 2012 12:04 am |
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schford
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Interesting thoughts, reminds me of a few white papers we did (I have a global tier 1 IT background) for some large FTSE 100 and gov departments.
They ended up being followed up with some studies and we discovered(well we proved what we said!) that when it comes to tech utilisation you don't see the bell curve you expect.
We saw that we got shifted curve depending on how easy tech was perceived to be.
For one particular example on fraud detection we got a 500% increase in results with a new GUI with absolutely zero change of the underlying code!!!! It was just easier for the user to use and interpret the results.
I have seen it time and again in the large scale corporate / public sector world - although I have not done anything similar in home world (although thats where my passion is) I think you hit the nail on the head with this discussion.
imho - dont worry about some mac consultant - I bet we could list out the top 10 things the system should do and then package them for the market.
In fact I have been wondering what to do with my time next - think might have hit on it!!! :-)
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| Posted: Wednesday Jan 4th, 2012 07:22 am |
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ident
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So for example the system intelligence is such that it knows when someone is in or out of the house (armed or disarmed). If the system is normally armed for 8 hours max and then gets armed for 12 hours may be 'the system' contacts its owner to ask "you have been away from our home for over 8 hours would you like me to arm to holiday mode?".
It is better that the system does not even need to ask
If it is in away for a number of hours then it can automatically go to vacation Mode
If you dont have any vacation mode then there is no effect as Vacation would be the same as Away. This can be done by programming, so a lot of the ease of using and interacting with the system can be determined by the installer
Comfort is a tool and a programmable platform which depends on the ingenuity of the installer
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| Posted: Wednesday Jan 4th, 2012 03:41 pm |
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juwi_uk
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My thoughts.
So from what I'm reading into what's been said it's a fight between the programming power of Comfort versus the time it takes to program it?
IMHO 2 areas spring to mind in terms of roadmap which could help:
1) A fast start wizard for Comfigurator that installers/self-installers could use immediately after install. Yep I know it has templates but what if you could push one button it goes off and discovers all of the installed modules, asks a few pertinent questions about how the user would like the system to work via some wizard screens and examples/scenarios and press "GO" at the end to get an initial working system ready to walk test. That would surely hide some of the complexity without compromising on the powerful capabilities of the solution that can be added later. Given that Comfigurator has a lot of that discovery technology already in place then it's just a case of pulling it all together via a wizard?
2) An end user focussed solution that would empower the average "Joe public" owner (not us enthusiasts) to make a few changes themselves post install without compromising the integrity of any installer managed solution but still giving them the warm feeling that they dont have ring their installer every time they want to do what they feel should be a simple tweak. Any solution needs to be end-user proof and have technolgy built in to prevent them from "harming their system"; maybe the equivalent of system restore (in Windows) where they can undo/rollback, lots of help and examples to guide them etc etc. Maybe at the end, document any changes and if installer managed email them to the installer too so they have copy. Lots of user-friendly stuff like that. IMHO that is where WizComfort maybe should be focussing it's roadmap? Again Wizcomfort already seems to be doing some of this now?
Most end users surely have a PC these days and if you make it easy for them to connect to Comfort then they are surely going to take advantage; Eth0x with WIFI springs to mind.
My thoughts into the mix.
JulianLast edited on Wednesday Jan 4th, 2012 03:42 pm by juwi_uk
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 5th, 2012 02:11 am |
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slychiu
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Thats a good idea, I was thinking of something like this for some time
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 5th, 2012 09:45 am |
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juwi_uk
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IMHO once you have Eth0x with WIFI then that should ship with all new systems as standard, and downplay USB and RS232 connections.
This will mean that installers and end users alike have a single communications method which can be operated 6 inches aware from an open comfort chassis by an installer using a laptop or 50 feet away by the end user later once the system is commissioned and the installer left site.
I guess that would up the cost slightly but now you have the lower cost Ethxx boards and shipping more that gap is going to narrow?
Only scenario I can see is users with desktops that don’t tend to have WIFI but I assume that the WIFI eth0x would still have a physical RJ45 port too so you can run a cable. Hey and you are from the "lands" where PC WIFI dongles are pence to make so you can always supply one "free-ish" as part of the initial bundle.
What's important though IMHO is that end users can communicate with Comfort once all the covers are back on. Surely that's a big barrier to them right now for them being involved unless installers present existing rs232/USB/eth connections outside of the case somehow and even then sitting in a dark closet where the Comfort Chassis is mounted is not a typical casual end user “sport†of choice when they casually want to interact!
Hopefully installers would setup the end users PC with the necessary software as part of the install and demo it all connecting nicely. Oh and obviously they wouldn’t hesitate in mentioning the 3rd party applications available out there like ComfortClient!! :0)
JulianLast edited on Thursday Jan 5th, 2012 09:46 am by juwi_uk
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 5th, 2012 11:53 am |
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ident
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End users should have a ucm/ethernet but they may not need the wifi version if they can connect the UCM to a LAN port. The price difference is not insignificant.
However USB cannot be discarded for installers as ethernet may not be avallable at the time of installation, and there are always more problems with network setup than USB.
Rs232 is hardly ever supplied except for the Universal UCM and 3rd party interfaces
It is better to leave the choice to installers and users
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 5th, 2012 12:59 pm |
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juwi_uk
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IMHO it's crazy not to push ethernet and make attractive pricepoint to installers to specify as default over USB.
An end users pc is going to be say in their living room, the Comfort panel tucked away in the broom cupboard or loft say. Going to need a long USB cable!
Yes running a Cat5e cable from Comfort to wherever the end-users (typically) 4 port switch/router combo is located would be good but again I'd suggest that in a lot of cases the end-user gets the broadband supplier to terminate next to where their PC is going to be located (and not next to Comfort) so that the router is placed next to the PC.
All of this making it more difficult for the user to interact with Comfort other than if they happen to have an iPhone and can use that app. Oh but hey the same problem of wiring back to the router/switch; do installers typically do this as a default anyway then?
Julian
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| Posted: Saturday Jan 7th, 2012 04:44 am |
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slychiu
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I think the UCM/Ethernet is already at an attractive price point. However I dont think we should make the USB option less attractive by increasing the price until it is unattractive. The installer or end user should have the choice as their requirements may not be the same.
I doubt any user would use the UCM/USB to connect to comfort on a regular basis, but USB may be more convenient to installers as they dont have to depend on a network setup. The UCN/USB (id 1) is normally used on site and is not part of the users system.
I would say that the vast majority of users who have Comfort installed for them (and I am talking about worldwide, not just the UK) do not have a UCM of any kind. End users who do not install their own system are not as knowledgeable as self installers
Wifi cannot be a standard for the UCM/ethernet (not available yet) at this time, as the cost difference is not insignificant and it may not be needed in most cases. With ADSL I think it makes more sense to locate the router next to the incoming telephone, instead of near the PC, because there may be several PCs in various rooms, so it should be no problem to connect to Comfort which is also mounted near the incoming telephone. Thus a PC can connect via wifi to Comfort easily, (wifi on the UCM/Ethernet is not required)
It is only when the router is not located near to Comfort, that a wifi option for the UCM/Ethernet is needed) for which there will be an addtional cost.
Hence the customer pays only for what they require which is only fair
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 8th, 2012 09:11 am |
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OK Ethernet options aside they are already available. What is much more exciting is the possibility of (yes a road map)with the following planned in!
CAN WE further EXPLORE a couple of the very good suggestion as above.
1) FAST START WIZARD
2) SMARTER than ever (for want of any better expression) Schford seems to suggest that by taking TEN things the system should do and then packaging them for market we could make some inroads into the Siri/total automation arena.
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 8th, 2012 09:22 am |
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I think (Juwi_uk) option 2 is tied in with the Siri/automation suggestion. (I'm using Siri as a term as it describes the type of interaction that i am ultimately after if someone can come up with better terminology...)
I think that Siri app that (given the away/holiday mode example) actually asks you at the end of (say) 20 hours "your home has now been vacated for longer than expected would you like to arm to holiday mode" etc is surely where we must be heading.
Taking these discussions could we not explore ten of these scenarios and see if we cannot get something working?
If we had something like this that worked then it would negate the end user having to set up or download upload anything. I am of course assuming that all Comfort installs have permanent Ethernet connection (which is where we as installer are rapidly heading.
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 8th, 2012 01:46 pm |
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schford
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A couple of ideas for a top 10 a wizrd could ask you about and then setup...Even if its not done with a wizard we could all contribute our code to make it easier for everyone else to set it up and I bet we would see some new ideas for us all to use.
1 - I see you have a PIR and light control in these rooms X Y Z - would you like me to set it up so the PIR turns the lights on when you walk in and switches them off after an hour of no movement? (Perhaps you could ask the user how long to wait before turning them off).
2 - I see you have a drive gate that I can control and a sensor that lets me see when it is open - would you like me to set it up so that by default if you open the gate with the system I close it again after 10 minutes?
3 - Would you like me to set the system to turn all the lights off if you activate way mode?
4 - Would you like me to turn all the downstairs lights off when you activate night mode?
5 - I see you have an intercom on the gate would you like me to set it up so it rings the house phones, diverts to anwserphone after 30 seconds, and switches off the ringer if you open the gate outside the system?
6 - Would you like me to divert the gate intercom to your mobile if alarm mode is active?
7 - Would you like me to program a lit route for you from downstairs to your bedroom that is activated by a wall switch and then when you confirm you have reached the bedroom with another wall switch press I will activate the night mode for you.
Anyone else got any thoughts?
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 8th, 2012 02:47 pm |
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schford
Exciting - as with everything there is so much more to any of this than meets the eye - it ground breaking stuff and i'm pretty sure we would need to do lots of BETA on this and before long it would be a full time job of a shed load of sad people!
Any way here goes !
""1 - I see you have a PIR and light control in these rooms X Y Z - would you like me to set it up so the PIR turns the lights on when you walk in and switches them off after an hour of no movement? ""(Perhaps you could ask the user how long to wait before turning them off).
- probably best to split this into two separate activities ... light on wit movement ......lights off after a time with movement may be set a week or two delay so that we build up to the lights off!
- In our experience an hour is about right but 50% dim is better than OFF, of course if its already 50% dim or less then you need to switch off
- What happens if this action occurs and the customer wants to change the timer or indeed want to remove the timer or the function altogether (because it was annoying or not required)
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""2 - I see you have a drive gate that I can control and a sensor that lets me see when it is open - would you like me to set it up so that by default if you open the gate with the system I close it again after 10 minutes?""
- not such a good idea all gates will have auto close set up better to think of a way of adding a permanently open command (and then a shut command)
""3 - Would you like me to set the system to turn all the lights off if you activate way mode?""
- again I suggest requires a timer
""4 - Would you like me to turn all the downstairs lights off when you activate night mode?""
- hum this requires more specific knowledge of the locations etc of night mode sensors if and when we set up night mode invariable not all the sensors are on the ground floor and they can access the kitchen etc - i hesitat at this one....
""5 - I see you have an intercom on the gate would you like me to set it up so it rings the house phones, diverts to anwserphone after 30 seconds, and switches off the ringer if you open the gate outside the system?""
- Too much info here; should already ring house phones and if not likely to be a physical change;the doorphone is probably more usefully set up to dial out in away or holiday mode. Switching off ringer - now theres one in its own - we usually add stop ringer to MDC front door zones but the customer could add this... again not so easy if the zone response is already in use it involves adding to and existing response.
6 - Would you like me to divert the gate intercom to your mobile if alarm mode is active?
- hum !
7 - Would you like me to program a lit route for you from downstairs to your bedroom that is activated by a wall switch and then when you confirm you have reached the bedroom with another wall switch press I will activate the night mode for you.
- no way can you imagine you other half getting into this scenario ! there would be hell to pay!
Anyone else got any thoughts?
Yes in truth there are plenty but can this be done and i think every one needs careful thought and testing and really nothing too complicated to start with.
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| Posted: Wednesday Jan 11th, 2012 11:26 am |
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slychiu
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Thats very interesting
Does anyone have any idea how the sharing of code will be managed? using What software and development platform?
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| Posted: Monday Jan 16th, 2012 07:06 am |
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cgiltrow
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This is a great discussion, and I believe an very important next step for the home automation industry.
I will give some thought to my top ten and post them here.
Another way to look at the same thing that I think might be helpful: What should the "default" (think more "cool" than default) functionality of a home automation system be (and then what is required and how do we implement it easily for the masses). So for example, the one mentioned of diverting a gate station to mobile when the system is armed to me should be a default function of a home automation system.
A good set of default functionality that people start becoming used will make the system easier to implement and use.
Cheers,
Clinton.
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| Posted: Thursday Jan 19th, 2012 08:29 pm |
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I think what is needed is to choose say the 20 'best' functions as we have started to do above....then to form some sort of matrix (again as we have started to do above).
As we can already see it becomes very complex very quickly.
Some feed back on what to do if once the user has been given an option and then set it - how to
- back track on this option
- document the option
This is breaking into new territory and really don't have the answer... perhaps the app needs to /store or relay a change list or would this 'simply' be a recollection of the comfort log (in a user friendly form)that could be highlighted and reversed...
Also commenting on cgiltro's "Another way to look at the same thing that I think might be helpful: What should the "default" (think more "cool" than default) functionality of a home automation system be (and then what is required and how do we implement it easily for the masses). So for example, the one mentioned of diverting a gate station to mobile when the system is armed to me should be a default function of a home automation system." Which again is correct - sort of.. because this relies on the customer not the installer, in as much as it requires the customer to input his chosen telephone number. So perhaps the introduction of an iphone install settings talk though menu would be a good idea - in the case above the talk though would start by asking the customer what should happen when armed to different security modes, and as a default suggest that when arming to away that a telephone number(s) is/are provided.
Honestly this is really interesting BUT to get it right is going to take some real genius piece of human interaction interface psychology. Perhaps its one for the girls !
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| Posted: Saturday Feb 11th, 2012 09:26 am |
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slychiu
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This is a very interesting discusion
Does schford, cgiltrow have any examples of code that cabn be used for this smart setup?
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| Posted: Saturday Feb 11th, 2012 04:44 pm |
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I think it needs a matrix which need to start at both ends of the spectrum.... let me try and explain.
It needs to have complete headings that encompass the functionality from the users perspective but also needs a matrix of what comfort can do and how it does it.
Are there any budding mathematicians out there?
What then needs to happen is that you look at a micro example as a test. This should then enable you firstly to establish what and how the software should be capable of then it should be 'easier' to grow the product.
You need to be able to map the process and the problem is there are so many variable variables!
Any way there is a possibility of course that i'm totally wrong and its easy!
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