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Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGD-212 learned as a Multilevel Sensor
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 Posted: Thursday Dec 17th, 2015 08:37 pm
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bagushandhoko
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Yes you make point regarding this matter.  But on the other hand when i chose comfort one of the reason because knowing it has ucm zwave as hub to zwave network .. i expect there is no issue about incompatibility.. all my lamps in my under construction house using the latest led module of philips ( very effecient in energy compare with led lamp in the market recently ) with new dimming driver that use trailing edge... so i need dimming controlled to communicate with comfort and i  chose zwave .... all the lamps,  comfort with 6 SEM and its local expansion, GSM ucm, 25 dimmer controllers including 15 fibaro FGD 212, all sensor alarm, IR beam etc just installed... no point of return ...

But last night i read the link given above and manual of FGD 212 ... seem that FGD 212 has inclusion option to disable secure mode to enable other device communicate  by unsecure methode.. if i am not misunderstood ...i havent had time to test it ... i hope this can solve the issue with comfort



 Posted: Thursday Dec 17th, 2015 08:48 pm
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juwi_uk
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Chiu,
From what I'm reading is does say that you cant control the device in non-secure mode from what I read. ie
"... If you want to control Dimmer 2 in non-secure mode you should re-include it in HC2 and this time do not use Security Mode...."
So to me it supports both but driven by how you include it in the first place.
Surely to be able to support either scenario the UCM just needs to support one more class;  the "secure" class doesn't it?
Ju

Last edited on Thursday Dec 17th, 2015 08:49 pm by juwi_uk



 Posted: Friday Dec 18th, 2015 06:46 am
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slychiu
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"... If you want to control Dimmer 2 in non-secure mode you should re-include it in HC2 and this time do not use Security Mode...."
This is what someone on their forum says (not sure if it is a fibaro guy or a user)
However the test lab report says (see Leons screenshot) this device works only in Secure mode so it is a contradiction. Hence only someone who has the device can verify it by including in non-secure mode.
If it is really true that it can work only in secure mode that will be a problem for many other devices as they will not be able to associate with this in secure mode



 Posted: Friday Dec 18th, 2015 09:01 pm
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juwi_uk
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This is what someone on their forum says (not sure if it is a fibaro guy or a user) However the test lab report says (see Leons screenshot) this device works only in Secure mode so it is a contradiction. Hence only someone who has the device can verify it by including in non-secure mode. If it is really true that it can work only in secure mode that will be a problem for many other devices as they will not be able to associate with this in secure mode
So I asked this question on the Fibaro Forum and the reply came back as

Security is mandatory for new Z-Wave+ devices. So device which uses ZW+ Chip must implement this feature.But, it is up to user how device will be included. In HC2/HCL before inclusion process you can decide - secure or non-secure inclusion.Also it is possible to include new Dimmer in secure mode and control directly other devices in network (non-secure ones) via associations but it is necessary to change one of advanced parameters in device's configuration.



 Posted: Saturday Dec 19th, 2015 04:30 am
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bagushandhoko
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Chiu,
Your system is very powerfull as integrator system ( instead of great and security one ) as your customer  i hope comfort willing to accommodate as much as possible in zwave world development, especially if this issues related with Zwave+ .... in order to make your market position also powerfull for integration with the zwave network



 Posted: Monday Dec 21st, 2015 04:58 am
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leonchue
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Hi juwi_uk,

You should also ask "If FGD-212 is done in non-secure inclusion, can other non-secure devices control FGD-212 directly, via association too?".

This is to confirm it is not a one way control only.



 Posted: Monday Dec 21st, 2015 06:21 am
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leonchue
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juwi_uk wrote: Security is mandatory for new Z-Wave+ devices. So device which uses ZW+ Chip must implement this feature.
Point to note that the above statement is misleading.  
Security is only mandatory for new Z-Wave+ Controllers.  Other Z-Wave+ devices will depend on their own specifications or applications. ;)



 Posted: Monday Feb 1st, 2016 09:28 pm
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MDKKEN
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Hi 
I just want to clarify regarding ZWave plus standard modules.
ZWave UCM should work with any ZWave plus module as long as the module does not encrypt its messages.
So Fibaro ZWave plus Dimmer will not work at it encrypts its messages 
whereas
Qubino Flush Dimmer ZWave Plus should work as it does not encrypt. please see http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/866.
More over, its dimming abilities for LEDs is better than the fibaro. For the UK it does require a neutral wire so wall mounted switches  with only switched live it will not work.
HOWEVER, this module can be placed in the ceiling rose where there is neutral so can still be used with a momentary switch.
I think is the case and make clear.



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 2nd, 2016 05:58 am
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bagushandhoko
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Its not clear support trailing edge dimming protocol as i need



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 2nd, 2016 07:07 am
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slychiu
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UCM/Zwave will work with any zwave plus device except for the new zwave plus features including encryption.  It imay not just be encryption that is different
Zwave should have made it a requirement that all zwave plus devices must have a mode that supports older devices, for the sake of compatibility



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 2nd, 2016 12:38 pm
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MDKKEN
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Hi,
Just to make clear 
  • ZWave plus  modules will not work with UCM ZWave if its encrypted.
It will work if commands are not encrypted and the commands are the ones you support, Is that correct
However the commands UCM Zwave are the most useful one and therefore usable on or off dimming etc
Newer commands in ZWAVEplus  will not work
  • The Qubino dimmer is  trailing edge  please see The dimmer's features don't end there - it's actually much more clever. When it's in a 230V AC (mains circuit) it operates as a trailing-edge dimmer, but if you put it into a 24V DC circuit it changes totally and works as a PWM dimmer. AC and DC circuits (and bulbs) use different dimmer circuits - so this device changes behaviour for how it is installed.
So overall not such a problem.



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 2nd, 2016 12:38 pm
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MDKKEN
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Hi,
Just to make clear 
  • ZWave plus  modules will not work with UCM ZWave if its encrypted.
It will work if commands are not encrypted and the commands are the ones you support, Is that correct
However the commands UCM Zwave are the most useful one and therefore usable on or off dimming etc
Newer commands in ZWAVEplus  will not work
  • The Qubino dimmer is  trailing edge  please see The dimmer's features don't end there - it's actually much more clever. When it's in a 230V AC (mains circuit) it operates as a trailing-edge dimmer, but if you put it into a 24V DC circuit it changes totally and works as a PWM dimmer. AC and DC circuits (and bulbs) use different dimmer circuits - so this device changes behaviour for how it is installed.
So overall not such a problem.



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 2nd, 2016 12:40 pm
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MDKKEN
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For review of QUBINO dimming module
see
http://www.vesternet.com/blog/2015/05/awesome-qubino-z-wave-range-stock-at-vesternet/



 Posted: Tuesday Feb 2nd, 2016 03:22 pm
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slychiu
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Correct that in most cases Zwave plus devices is not a problem
But see the example of Fibaro FGD212 where the dimming commands are encrypted



 Posted: Wednesday Feb 3rd, 2016 11:19 am
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bagushandhoko
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thanks MDKKEN ... this information too late for me ... just installed 15 Fibaro dimmers + Fibaro controller ( inside comfort network with full 5 Slave Expansion+ LEM ) ... plus UCM zwave for as bridge ... so become useless automation ...  This is my mistake choose wrong system 

Last edited on Wednesday Feb 3rd, 2016 11:22 am by bagushandhoko



 Posted: Sunday Feb 21st, 2016 04:57 pm
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muddymickey
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I recently purchased a Fibaro FGD-212 dimmer, to start replacing some unreliable X10 micro modules.  

I can successfully control it via Domoticz running on a Raspberry Pi, using an Aeotec Z-Stick Gen 5 as the primary controller. 

I also recently purchased a Z-Wave UCM for Comfort and fitted it, as I want to operate my lights based on PIR sensors via Comfort (as I did with X10).  I've just updated the main Comfort firmware from 5-something to 7.093.  The Z-Wave UCM is running firmware 7.013. I also have a USB UCM running firmware 5.178.Comfigurator reports version 3.10.11.0.  Comfort has learned the Z-Wave configuration OK from the primary controller,
 I can see the Fibaro as a "Routing_Slave-Power_Switch_Multilevel" with node type of "MultiLevel Sensor".  The "Switch Device On" and "Switch Device Off" buttons in Comfigurator DO work OK.  "Switch Device On" causes the dimmer to turn on at the last dim level (which was set either via Domoticz or the momentary wall switches).  Presumably if Comfort can turn the lights on and off via these buttons in Comfigurator, I should be able to do the same in a response somehow ?  

However, the only Z-Wave command I can choose in a response is a "Basic Get Command".  

Any suggestions ?



 Posted: Monday Feb 22nd, 2016 10:48 am
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leonchue
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muddymickey wrote: However, the only Z-Wave command I can choose in a response is a "Basic Get Command".  
Any suggestions ?

Have you try to click on the "Basic Get Command" and reveal a drop-down arrow?  
Click on the arrow to see "Basic Set Command" in the list.

See example as attached.

Attachment: getset.png (Downloaded 27 times)



 Posted: Monday Feb 22nd, 2016 04:00 pm
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bagushandhoko
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Hi Muddymickey .. its good news for me that you could control FGD 212 from comfort ... have you changed the security association method when connect to aeotec ?



 Posted: Monday Feb 22nd, 2016 04:21 pm
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slychiu
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If your ucm is 5.178 how did you upgrade the comfort firmware to version 7?

Did you use the UCM firmware cable?

If so you should also upgrade the Zwave firmware to the latest which is more than 7.013 but I do not recall exactly

If possible upgrade the UCM 5.178 to version 7 using another UCM so that in future you  do not have to use the upgrade cable



 Posted: Monday Feb 22nd, 2016 06:01 pm
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muddymickey
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slychiu wrote: If your ucm is 5.178 how did you upgrade the comfort firmware to version 7?

Did you use the UCM firmware cable?

If so you should also upgrade the Zwave firmware to the latest which is more than 7.013 but I do not recall exactly

If possible upgrade the UCM 5.178 to version 7 using another UCM so that in future you  do not have to use the upgrade cable
Yes I had to buy the programming cable.

I have two UCMs:
Z-Wave (firmware 7.013)
USB (firmware 5.178)

How do I upgrade my USB UCM ?

Also - not sure if this is related or not - but since doing this work yesterday, my keypad is constantly showing "UCM3 communication failure".



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