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Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGD-212 learned as a Multilevel Sensor
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 Posted: Monday Nov 30th, 2015 02:36 am
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LeeBurley
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I have a working Fibaro Relay Module, so I know that the Comfort ZWave interface works ok.
I am trying to include my Fibaro Dimmer 2 (FGD-212) into my Comfort System. The sensor register reads the power figures from the bulbs, but there doesn't seem to be a way of controlling them - however they work fine from Vera.
Looking at the Comfort Manuals, I would have thought they would be sensed as a Multilevel Multichannel Switch but they are showing as a Multilevel Sensor. See attached screenshot. When I do a response to control them I am only given the choice of a Basic Get, a Basic Set and a Multichannel Get
Is this why I can read the power sensor but not control them and how would I fix this?

Attachment: XWave.jpg (Downloaded 115 times)



 Posted: Monday Nov 30th, 2015 06:32 am
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slychiu
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The screenshot shows that the device is a Multilevel Sensor. The device type is set by the manufacturer.

You have mapped it to a counter.
You should be able to  control it  by
  1. changing the value of the mapped counter eg 0 for off, 255 for On, 0-255 for dim levels
  2. Using the action for UCM/Zwave. The Set command is to control the device
  3. Pressing the switch device on and switch device off buttons on your screen
Have you tried to control it yet?



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 1st, 2015 07:20 pm
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LeeBurley
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Hi, When I load a counter with a value the lights do not respond and stay off. I have tried 255, 99, 80 and other values. Strangely, after trying to set it with a counter the light then wont stay on with Vera - it just goes on for a moment then goes off again. If I manually use the switch everything settles down again but comfort cant control it.



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 1st, 2015 10:13 pm
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Ingo
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Make sure you have the latest UCM/Zwave firmware.



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 1st, 2015 11:53 pm
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LeeBurley
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Its on 7.072 which is the latest I think.
If I set a counter on the Fibaro relay it works as expected, so it only the dimmers I am having major problems with.

Last edited on Tuesday Dec 1st, 2015 11:53 pm by LeeBurley



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 2nd, 2015 07:11 am
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leonchue
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Does the dimmer's counter value shows the value correctly, whenever dimmer state changes (eg. control the switch manually) ?    Make sure that dimmer's counter is not used for other purposes elsewhere.

Other than upgrading UCM/Zwave to the latest version, it is best that Comfort Main is using the latest version too.

Also you can do a "Learn" operation again, so that the Z-Wave network recompute its route table.  Take note that you do NOT need to "Reset" to default, before doing so.  



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 2nd, 2015 12:16 pm
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LeeBurley
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leonchue wrote: Does the dimmer's counter value shows the value correctly, whenever dimmer state changes (eg. control the switch manually) ?    Make sure that dimmer's counter is not used for other purposes elsewhere.

Other than upgrading UCM/Zwave to the latest version, it is best that Comfort Main is using the latest version too.

Also you can do a "Learn" operation again, so that the Z-Wave network recompute its route table.  Take note that you do NOT need to "Reset" to default, before doing so.  


Hi, Comfort and all its UCMs/RIO/KPs are at the latest firmware
When the switch is operated manually or through Vera the value in the counter is not updated, but the value of power usage is updated in the sensor
I have tried another learn and nothing has improved.



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 2nd, 2015 12:56 pm
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leonchue
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This is strange.  

Try unassigned sensor and leaving the only the counter assigned.  See if the latter gets update.

Also have you tried clicking on the right buttons ("Switch Device On" and "Switch Device Off"), to see if the device reacts?

If still fails, send your latest cclx file to support@cytech.biz .  Hopefully we can find something out.

Attachment: ZWave.jpg (Downloaded 97 times)



 Posted: Thursday Dec 3rd, 2015 01:10 am
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LeeBurley
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I unassigned the sensor so that only the counter remained. The light still doesn't work, and the on and off buttons also do not respond. I am sending you my cclx file on email. Thanks!



 Posted: Friday Dec 4th, 2015 10:21 am
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leonchue
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The attached FGD-212 information is extracted from http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/750

As you can see,  the multilevel sensor command class transmission is in "non secure" method and basic command class is in "secure" method.  

All this is consistent with what LeeBurley is experiencing. 

Since UCM/Zwave does not support secure transmission, therefore Comfort sensor register gets updated while counter register does not.  Also UCM/Zwave cannot control FGD-212 on/off and dimming.  

In short, Fibaro Dimmer FGD-212 cannot work with our UCM/Zwave.  This is because some command classes are transmitted in "secure" method, including the commonly used Basic command class.  

FGD-212 will have difficulties working with many other controllers and devices, as most do not support secure transmission.

Attachment: FGD-212.png (Downloaded 89 times)



 Posted: Friday Dec 4th, 2015 12:05 pm
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juwi_uk
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Hi Leon
This is going to be a problem moving forwards then as all of the Fibaro units seem to be moving to the new version "2" models that are Z-Wave Plus certified and support power monitoring and OTA upgrading etc.
Surely if Vera can support such comms then Comfort needs to, and should be able to,  as well if you are to keep up with the world. 
Has anyone asked Fibaro why it is like this? 
What does that pepper.net report for the previous generation dimmers as I'd like to see the difference.  ie the FGD-211. 
Also does the Roller Shutter 2 (FGR-222) for example have the same issue?
Ju



 Posted: Friday Dec 4th, 2015 01:01 pm
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leonchue
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FGD-211 (old dimmer)
http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/334

FGS-222 (Double relay switch)
http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/639

FGRM-222 (Roller shutter 2)
http://www.pepper1.net/zwavedb/device/492


All three do not use secure transmission.  ;)



 Posted: Friday Dec 4th, 2015 01:22 pm
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juwi_uk
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Then maybe Cytech can ask Fibaro where their roadmap is heading then in this area as your are more likely to get an answer that us mere "Joe Public" mortals! :)
Still think if Vera can support then Cytech needs to as well as it suggested their support for functionality of ZWave devices goes deeper.

Last edited on Friday Dec 4th, 2015 01:23 pm by juwi_uk



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 9th, 2015 11:15 am
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slychiu
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Vera is a software that is specifically designed for Zwave.
Comfort supports many different systems including Cbus, KNX, Zwave, eHomeGreen, etc as an embedded solution so it is not comparable. We will not be able to support the hundred of classes which are defined by Zwave which includes many rarely used classes, otherwise our R&D will have no time for other work, just keeping up with Zwave changes.

The "Basic Set" command in Zwave was supposed to be supported by All Zwave devices. Now there is a device which does NOT support basic set command unless it is encrypted. Why is this necessary for a dimmer? This sort of "feature" will be incompatible with 99 % of controllers, and put an end to the inter-operablity of Zwave so it seems to be a backward step.

We recommend that Zwave devices with the standard functions like dimmers, switches, relays, sensors be used with UCM/Zwave not those devices which implement non standard or non-compatible features as these cannot be supported. 


We will have to list what are the products which do not work with UCM/Zwave
So FGD-212 (Fibaro Dimmer 2) is not compatible with UCM/Zwave. There are other zwave dimmers which can be used instead.




 Posted: Friday Dec 11th, 2015 12:15 pm
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juwi_uk
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Hi

I started the discussion on the Fibaro forum and they have replied (see link below). Seems to me their argument is sound and depends on what mode you run your primary controller. Maybe you can join the conversation too in reply to their response and my original question. That said it seems to me that Cytech need to suppory secure mode asap if this UCM is to keep up.

Ju

http://forum.fibaro.com/index.php?/topic/20143-update-hc2-4059-beta/page-6#entry78796



 Posted: Friday Dec 11th, 2015 01:05 pm
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slychiu
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What I understand from that post is that you need to include the device in Nonsecure mode in HC2 if you want other nonsecure controllers to work with it, which seems like the best way to fix this , rather than have UCM/Zwave support secure mode to control a dimmer.
I dont see why you would need to have encryption for a dimmer
By the way there may be other problems in using encryption because there are many more messages between the devices in order to learn and communicate. This may be problematic if you have more than a few devices.



 Posted: Monday Dec 14th, 2015 05:40 am
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leonchue
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juwi_uk wrote: Hi

I started the discussion on the Fibaro forum and they have replied (see link below). Seems to me their argument is sound and depends on what mode you run your primary controller. Maybe you can join the conversation too in reply to their response and my original question. That said it seems to me that Cytech need to suppory secure mode asap if this UCM is to keep up.

Ju

http://forum.fibaro.com/index.php?/topic/20143-update-hc2-4059-beta/page-6#entry78796

With reference to your link, this is my view on the reply. 

Even if dimmer 2 can "re-included in HC2 and this time do not use secure mode", it will make not much difference.  The dimmer 2 firmware is programmed to do Basic command class (and some others) transmissions in secure mode only.  Maybe someone can try out to see if this is true.

Also need to point out one more issue.  Although dimmer 2 can control other devices in non-secure mode via association, other devices (such as their own dimmer v1) cannot control dimmer 2 via association.  This is because other devices (dimmer v1) do not support secure command class.  It is only 1 way control.



 Posted: Monday Dec 14th, 2015 05:25 pm
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Perhaps you could post on the Fibaro forum Leon or get confirmation of your assumption because at the moment it's looking like I'll need to retire my UCM too and just use the Fibaro HC2 for automation for now then as this is obviously the way they are going with their units for some reason or another.Ju



 Posted: Wednesday Dec 16th, 2015 08:36 pm
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bagushandhoko
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I have same problem. My system using 92 output plus 15 lamp group controlled by FGD 212 . The system just installed . I have no option instead using FGD 212 ... because the only zwave dimmer that can control trailing edge dimming protocol for my philips lamp . So its very dispointed ..the ucm not compatible .. this make the reason why i choose comfort because its strenght as integrator become gone :X



 Posted: Thursday Dec 17th, 2015 04:03 pm
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slychiu
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It is not possible or practical for UCM/Zwave to support all known Z-Wave classes, and more are introduced all the time. Hence you have to ensure that if you want the whole Z-wave network to be supported by UCM/Zwave, it is necessary to check what classes are required for the device. The constant changes in my opinion will only lead to the fragmentation of the standard in that other controllers will not be able to support these new devices. In contrast, CBus and KNX have a protocol which is stable but at the same time support a huge variety of  products and manufacturers (in the case of KNX)
If you have no option but to use this  FGD 212  which requires encryption for dimming (which seems illogical) because no other Z-wave device supports trailing edge dimming, then dont you think it is a problem of not  having other manufacturers of trailing edge dimmers available in Z-Wave instead of the fault of UCM/Zwave of not supporting encryption for dimmers?



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