| Posted: Thursday Jan 24th, 2008 10:04 pm |
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mikegriff
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Hi Chiu
Clipsal seem to have altered their use of Application 208 in Version 4.1.0 of Piced
How will this effect Comfort to Cbus implementation?
Just spent a couple of hours stripping out all references to "Application 208" in Clipsal software - I know I wasn't meant to use it! - but it used to work a treat! At least now all the lights have stopped flashing 
Any way seems to have all changed now
Also wipes out Homegate < ver4 as this doesnt have the new system so cant be used with Ver 4+ Piced
Any thoughts?
Mike
Last edited on Thursday Jan 24th, 2008 10:05 pm by mikegriff
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| Posted: Friday Jan 25th, 2008 08:54 am |
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Howser
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mikegriff wrote: Hi Chiu
Just spent a couple of hours stripping out all references to "Application 208" in Clipsal software - I know I wasn't meant to use it! - but it used to work a treat! At least now all the lights have stopped flashing
I had to do the same thing.
I am a bit concerned though, the GetStringIBSystemIO("Security Armed Level Name", armLevel) in PICED 4.1.X does not seem to have the 4 alarm levels that Comfort has. It has (0 = disarmed, 1 = fully armed, 2 = partially armed).
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| Posted: Friday Jan 25th, 2008 12:21 pm |
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admin
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Actually we were not aware of this. We will install this new version and check out the implications
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| Posted: Sunday Jan 27th, 2008 03:04 am |
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admin
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The previous software for CTouch did not support the Security Application (208 or D0 hex) even though it was defined in the Cbus specs.
Comfort was the only product which used the Security Application. However the CTouch software (and earlier Piced versions) were able to use a workaround by specifying Application 208 and the "group" address for the security parameter
Hence this change is a positive development as the Security Application is supported directly and will make like easier. However the old templates will need modifcation. We will come out with a new template for Cytech/Comfort on C-Touch
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| Posted: Wednesday Nov 11th, 2009 08:45 am |
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Sandeep Seeripat
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Hi
Where can I get the templates, as I have a problem that the new version of PICED does not recognize the Application 208. Do I have to upgrade my Minder Pro system?
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| Posted: Wednesday Nov 11th, 2009 11:45 am |
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| Posted: Thursday Feb 11th, 2010 05:57 am |
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Howser
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admin wrote:
Actually we were not aware of this. We will install this new version and check out the implications
So what are your findings?
We have one of the PICED SystemIO not responding as expected (discussed on http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3931), and I was wondering what your thoughts would be on this issue?Last edited on Thursday Feb 11th, 2010 05:57 am by Howser
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| Posted: Thursday Feb 11th, 2010 10:49 pm |
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slychiu
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This appears like a bug in PICED, if the older version shows the correct levels
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| Posted: Friday Feb 12th, 2010 02:18 pm |
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Ingo
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Chiu,
Here is what I am capturing on my CBus Diagnostic Utility while arming to Day Mode. According the the Clipsal guys there is one message missing and that is the reason they cannot determine to which mode Comfort was armed to. Can you please check to see if the, optional, 'Arm System' message is being sent to the CBus side. I am running the latest UCM/CBus firmware as well as the latest production release of my Ultra II firmware.
The full explanation, from NickD, is available on the CBus forum.
Thanks,
Ingo
17:09:49 Tx : ~~~<CR>
17:09:49 Tx : = Set Basic Mode
17:09:49 Tx : A3300051<CR>
17:09:49 Tx : = Set Default Mode
17:09:49 Rx : 05123800010AA6<CR>
17:09:49 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Lighting, GA 10 Off
17:09:49 Rx : ~
17:09:49 Rx : ~
17:09:49 Rx : ~
17:09:49 Rx : <CR>
17:09:49 Rx : A3300051<CR>
17:09:49 Rx : 8600000032300018<CR>
17:09:49 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 0, System Message
17:10:04 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Arm Not Ready : Zone 11 Not Sealed
17:10:05 Rx : 0512D0000A920D70<CR>
17:10:05 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Arm Not Ready : Zone 13 Not Sealed
17:10:07 Rx : 0512D0000A8A0B7A<CR>
17:10:07 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 11 Isolated
17:10:07 Rx : 0512D0000A8A0D78<CR>
17:10:07 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 13 Isolated
17:10:08 Rx : 0512D0000A8A1B6A<CR>
17:10:08 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 27 Isolated
17:10:08 Rx : 0512D0000A8A1C69<CR>
17:10:08 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 28 Isolated
17:10:08 Rx : 0512D0000A8A2C59<CR>
17:10:08 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 44 Isolated
17:10:08 Rx : 0512D0000A8A3253<CR>
17:10:08 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 50 Isolated
17:10:09 Rx : 0512D0000A8A3352<CR>
17:10:09 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 51 Isolated
17:10:10 Rx : 0512D0000A8A3451<CR>
17:10:10 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 52 Isolated
17:10:10 Rx : 0512D0000A8A3550<CR>
17:10:10 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 53 Isolated
17:10:10 Rx : 0512D0000A8A364F<CR>
17:10:10 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 54 Isolated
17:10:10 Rx : 0512D0000A8A374E<CR>
17:10:10 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 55 Isolated
17:10:11 Rx : 0512D0000A92007D<CR>
17:10:11 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Arm Ready
17:10:11 Rx : 0512D00009818F<CR>
17:10:11 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Exit Delay Started
17:10:23 Rx : 0512D0007A80011E<CR>
17:10:23 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: System Fully Armed
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| Posted: Friday Feb 12th, 2010 02:43 pm |
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Howser
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slychiu wrote: This appears like a bug in PICED, if the older version shows the correct levels
Since the introduction of Security Application SystemIO, this never worked.
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| Posted: Monday Feb 15th, 2010 02:06 am |
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ident
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After reviewing the messages sent to Cbus when the system is armed, eg in the example below
17:10:23 Rx : 0512D0007A80011E<CR>
17:10:23 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: System Fully Armed
it appears that Comfort sends either a fully armed or disarmed message and does not send eg Away Mode, Night Mode, Day Mode etc
This has always been the case so the new Securirty system I/O in Piced should not have made any difference
It is possible for Comfort to send values (new firmware)
0512D0007A80011E<CR>
01 = Away Mode
0512D0007A80021D<CR>
02 = Night Mode
0512D0007A80031C<CR>
03 = Day Mode
0512D0007A80041B<CR>
04 = Vacation Mode
However we dont know if Piced will interpret this correctly as this is optional information. Does anyone have any knowledge of this?
Last edited on Monday Feb 15th, 2010 02:07 am by ident
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| Posted: Monday Feb 15th, 2010 02:27 am |
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ident
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It is possible for Comfort to send values (new firmware)
0512D0007A80011E<CR>
01 = Away Mode
0512D0007A80021D<CR>
02 = Night Mode
0512D0007A80031C<CR>
03 = Day Mode
0512D0007A80041B<CR>
04 = Vacation Mode
You can test the beta firmware Cbus 5.203 which implements the above function and let us know if PiCed System I/O can determine the Security Mode, go to http://www.comfortforums.com/view_topic.php?id=1752&forum_id=85
Last edited on Tuesday Feb 16th, 2010 05:48 am by ident
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| Posted: Monday Feb 15th, 2010 04:22 am |
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Ingo
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I had a quick look and it seems still not to work. Below is the output from my Diagnostic Utility. There is however a change in the output, it now states the system is armed in a 'special state'
According to the Clipsal guys, the "Arm System" message is the key to get this working. Please check http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3931&page=2 as well.
07:17:46 Rx : 0512D0000A92334A<CR>
07:17:46 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Arm Not Ready : Zone 51 Not Sealed
07:17:47 Rx : 0512D0000A8A3352<CR>
07:17:47 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 51 Isolated
07:17:47 Rx : 0512D0000A8A3550<CR>
07:17:47 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 53 Isolated
07:17:47 Rx : 0512D0000A8A364F<CR>
07:17:47 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 54 Isolated
07:17:47 Rx : 0512D0000A8A374E<CR>
07:17:47 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Zone 55 Isolated
07:17:48 Rx : 0512D0000A92007D<CR>
07:17:48 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Arm Ready
07:17:48 Rx : 0512D00009818F<CR>
07:17:48 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: Exit Delay Started
07:18:01 Rx : 0512D0007A80031C<CR>
07:18:01 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: System Armed State special
Last edited on Monday Feb 15th, 2010 04:29 am by Ingo
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| Posted: Monday Feb 15th, 2010 12:01 pm |
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ident
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From what NickD in the CBus forum says and what we can see from the log, Comfort is giving the correct messages
07:18:01 Rx : 0512D0007A80031C<CR>
07:18:01 Rx : = Local Network, Source Unit 18, Security, Security: System Armed State special
means that Comfort is armed to Day Mode (value 3)
The log is exactly what I had indicated for armed to Day Mode output in my earlier post
0512D0007A80031C<CR>
(03 = Day Mode )
It appears that Comfort was armed by keypad. If Comfort was armed by Piced to Day mode then it would know that the "special mode" is Day Mode
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| Posted: Monday Feb 15th, 2010 02:11 pm |
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Ingo
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I tend to disagree. Arming with Day Mode with whichever method shouldn't make a difference. To test this theory I armed my system using PICED, and using the system IO function 'Arm System to Day Mode'. It had the exact same results as arming from the keypad. No indication on PICED of what level the system is armed at. It could be something on the PICED side as well but the first thing is that the Arm System *request*, as NickD refers, is not seen on the CBus side. Can we not include this message when Comfort arms from the keypad?
From the CBus forum: ....
This should still be treated by the PAC as "Armed".. in the absence of the "Arm System" message described earlier, it treats any arm code that's not equal to disarmed as an "Armed" state.
Another thing came to light by doing this test, when arming to Day Mode via PICED, it fails to arm if ANY of the zones are open. I wonder if there is a 'force-arm' function in PICED that can be used, as far as I can tell there are none.
This puts us at a bit of a disadvantage, with ComfortClient, and any software that sends either the m! or M! command, you can choose to force-arm with open zones or not. Especially in Day Mode, I like to be at home, with some open zones and still have some protection. How would that be accomplished via PICED or is that another thread that needs to be started?
Ingo
Last edited on Monday Feb 15th, 2010 02:59 pm by Ingo
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| Posted: Tuesday Feb 16th, 2010 12:39 am |
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ident
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Nick is actually referring to the Arm System Command ($A2, followed by security mode = 01 for Away, 02 for Night, 03 for Day, 04 for Vacation mode) which is issued by a Cbus device to the security system to arm itself. It is not meant to be sent by the security system.
When Comfort is armed, it sends the System Armed status ($80, followed by armed mode) to Cbus
Issuing the command Arm to Day Mode from System IO should be sending the Arm System Command (or Request) to the Bus, otherwise Comfort would not know to arm the system to Day mode. Why the message is not seen is a question for Piced
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| Posted: Tuesday Feb 16th, 2010 03:38 am |
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Ingo
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So am I correct in assuming that when Comfort is armed via the keypad, PICED will never know to what mode it was armed to?
As for the problem why PICED doesn't 'see' it's own "Arm System" message, that's something Clipsal needs to look at.
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| Posted: Tuesday Feb 16th, 2010 05:08 am |
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ident
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All Cbus devices should be able to know what mode Comfort is armed to regardless of whether it is armed by keypad or Ctouch. Comfort reports System armed to C-Bus with the security mode 1,2,3, or 4. It is a problem with C-Touch that it does not show Day Mode, Night Mode or Away mode according to the security mode reported
See our post in the Cbus Forum http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=29807#post29807
Last edited on Tuesday Feb 16th, 2010 05:21 am by ident
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