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Problem with send message from c-bus to knx
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 Posted: Friday Dec 23rd, 2016 08:33 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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I use Bus translator configurator V1.0.1.0
for testing knx commands i used ETS4 and Logic Machine 5
From web interface logic machine i set value for group witch send from knx to c-bus its work fine.
But when i try change value c-bus group from toolkit its dont translate to knx.
Configuration witch download from cbus knx transator in attachment. 


In broshure (http://www.cytech.biz/download_files.php?item_id=296) says that device can translate Aircondition cbus aplication, how i can translate data from cbus thermostat, witch dont have address for each parametrs but have address communication group?

Attachment: Test_ctrl.zip (Downloaded 3 times)

Last edited on Friday Dec 23rd, 2016 09:52 pm by m.j.sorokin



 Posted: Friday Dec 23rd, 2016 08:44 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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On the knx module (PC01-035B) on the other side there is no element С108. Is it Ok?



 Posted: Saturday Dec 24th, 2016 06:46 am
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slychiu
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Do you mean that you cannot send any cbus commands to KNX, or are you referring to the Airconditioning Application only?
In fact there is an error in the brochure. The Cbus airconditioning application is not supported directly, as there is not a KNX type that can receive all the airconditioning application commands so it is not possible to directly convert to KNX
I understand that you can change the application to Lighting using Cbus toolkit

What do you want to achieve

Do not worry about C108



 Posted: Saturday Dec 24th, 2016 01:47 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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Thanks for the answer. These are two different issues. Regarding the thermostats everything is clear.
The main problem is that group addresses of c-bus not transferred to the knx network. 
I tried to translate group adress from diferent aplication (standart light aplication 56, and custom alication 70). 
I tried to change the values of group addresses from the toolkit software and through key switches, but the changes dont transmit to knx...
I also tried to use the "learn" function, the device receives the correct addressing of c-bus aplication and group address. 



 Posted: Saturday Dec 24th, 2016 02:03 pm
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Your test_ctrl file only has custom application 70 in Cbus to KNX
Forget about custom application for now. Just try a Lighting application, select a Cbus group address and map to a KNX lighting group address
This should definately work



 Posted: Saturday Dec 24th, 2016 02:15 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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i test that variant, it's dont work... in attachment last tested config.

Attachment: Test_ctrl2.0.zip (Downloaded 3 times)

Last edited on Saturday Dec 24th, 2016 02:16 pm by m.j.sorokin



 Posted: Saturday Dec 24th, 2016 02:30 pm
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Please check the state of the diagnostic leds on the module below. This should give an idea what is wrong. perhaps a power supply issue on the cbus or KNX side
  • D4 "RDY" (Green) - Indicates Power On.
  • D5 "IN0" (Red) - Blinks when CBUS telegram is received from CBUS.
  • D6 "OUT0" (Red) - Blinks when CBUS telegram is sent to CBUS. Remains on  when no acknowledgment is received from CBUS after outgoing telegram.
  • D7 "ERR0" (Red) - Steady when CBUS is not connected or CBUS power supply is not on, or when the CBUS interface is not initialised or has an initialisation error. D7 flashes continuously when the EEPROM is blank, ie unprogrammed. Both D7 and D10 both flash continuously if the U2 EEPROM is not present.
  • D8 "IN1" (Red) - Blinks when KNX telegram is received from KNX.
  • D9 "OUT1" (Red) - Blinks when KNX telegram is sent to KNX. Steady when no acknowledgment is received from CBUS after outgoing telegram.
  • D10 "ERR1" (Red) - Steady when KNX is not connected or KNX power supply is not on, or when the KNX interface is not initialised or has an initialisation error. Both D7 and D10 both flash continuously if the U2 EEPROM is not present.
  • D11 (Green) - blinks when data is received from the USB Port.
  • D12 (Red) - blinks when data is sent to the USB Port.
  • LD1 (Red) on CBUS Submodule. On when Burden is enabled
  • LD2 (Red) on CBUS Submodule. ON Steady when idle, Blinks during CBUS communication.
  • LD3 (Green) on CBUS Submodule. OFF when Network Voltage is low or Clock is not present. ON Steady when Voltage and Clock are present. Flashing when  Bus Voltage is marginal (15-20V)



 Posted: Monday Dec 26th, 2016 05:24 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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D4 "RDY" (Green) - Always ON     //Indicates Power On.
D5 "IN0" (Red) - Blink when send data from c-bus network     //Blinks when CBUS telegram is received from
CBUS.
D6 "OUT0" (Red) - Blink when send data from c-bus network     //Blinks when CBUS telegram is sent to CBUS. Remains on  when no acknowledgment is received from CBUS after outgoing telegram.
D7 "ERR0" (Red) - Steady when CBUS is not connected or CBUS power supply is not on, or when the CBUS interface is not initialised or has an initialisation error. D7 flashes continuously when the EEPROM is blank, ie unprogrammed. Both D7 and D10 both flash continuously if the U2 EEPROM is not present.
D8 "IN1" (Red) - Blink when send data from c-bus network     //Blinks when KNX telegram is received from KNX.
D9 "OUT1" (Red) - Blinks when KNX telegram is sent to KNX. Steady when no acknowledgment is received from CBUS after outgoing telegram.D10 "ERR1" (Red) - Steady when KNX is not connected or KNX power supply is not on, or when the KNX interface is not initialised or has an initialisation error. Both D7 and D10 both flash continuously if the U2 EEPROM is not present.
D11 (Green) - blinks when data is received from the USB Port.
D12 (Red) - Blink when send data from c-bus and KNX networks     //blinks when data is sent to the USB Port.
LD1 (Red) - Always ON (but burden on this module is off)     // on CBUS Submodule. On when Burden is enabled
LD2 (Red) - Always ON, Blink when send data from c-bus network    //on CBUS Submodule. ON Steady when idle, Blinks during CBUS communication.
LD3 (Green) - OFF (but clock ON on this module, and network voltage via toolkit network diagnostic 30,1V)     //on CBUS Submodule. OFF when Network Voltage is low or Clock is not present. ON Steady when Voltage and Clock are present. Flashing when  Bus Voltage is marginal (15-20V)

Last edited on Monday Dec 26th, 2016 05:26 pm by m.j.sorokin



 Posted: Monday Dec 26th, 2016 05:48 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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I test only liting aplication, i delete in config group address from another application. It worked! but how to be with other applications?



 Posted: Tuesday Dec 27th, 2016 06:37 am
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slychiu
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Zones, Lighting, Security, Clocks and Timekeeping, Trigger applications are supported directly by Cbus to KNX. Custom, applications  may also be used depending on what they are
However you have entered Application 70 and 71. These are not known applications in Cbus. There are no such applications so they may be causing problems in Cbus
Note that the application numbers are in Decimal in Cbus to KNX for example Lighting application is 56 in decimal

application 70 is $46, and 71 is $47 are not defined

Which applications are you trying to use?



 Posted: Thursday Dec 29th, 2016 10:09 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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In this case, the device does not work with all the claimed features!
Application 56 "Lighting" in my project is almost entirely filled with light groups. And i need use additional aplications for send and recive data for other systems (Air Conditiones, ventilation, UPS...) managment and control from Color Touch Screens of c-bus...

Aplication like Zones, Security and Trigers are not suitable for these purposes. 

I need to use an application such as light, but with a different address, so that I could self-define the values of these groups in the range from 0 to 255.


In the description specified that I can use the custom application, and the software allows this configuration. Why, in fact, this feature does not work?



And still like to clarify one issue. The brochure is specified that the device can transmit group adress with the types of Floating Point (2-byte), and Scaling (1-byte). In any c-bus applications and group adress I can use these types?

Last edited on Thursday Dec 29th, 2016 10:14 pm by m.j.sorokin



 Posted: Friday Dec 30th, 2016 06:51 am
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slychiu
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The Cbus to KNX translator was not designed to support the HVAC and Ventilation Applications. You will not be able to make these work using Custom applications

It does support Custom applications. However using Invalid or reserved application numbers like 70 and 71 may cause problems in CBUS not related to this product

Custom applications must be able to map to the supported KNX Address Types On/Off, Relative DIM, Floating Point, Scaling. If they cannot be mapped then it will not work

As the manual explains about Floatng point and Scaling KNX types
  • On/Off  means a 1-bit KNX telegram corresponding to a CBUS On/Off message.
  • RelativeDim means a 4-bit KNX telegram which corresponds to a CBUS Relative Dimming command.
  • Time means a Time KNX telegram corresponding to a CBUS Time message.
  • Date means a Date KNX telegram corresponding to a CBUS Date message.
  • Floatiing Point means a KNX Floating Point telegram. The incoming CBUS message has its object value converted to a floating point (“EIS 5”)  2-byte  telegram.
  • Scaling means a the CBUS object value is sent as a KNX 1-byte (“EIS 6”) telegram. For example CBUS Lighting application ON value is transmitted to the KNX mapped group address as a 1 byte value of 255, and CBUS Off signal is translated to a 1-byte telegram value of 0
The point is that Cbus objects/commands can be converted to Floating point and scaling KNX objects if required





 Posted: Monday Jan 16th, 2017 01:22 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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You write that the compiler supports custom applications. But there can be problems in the c-bus network with these groups...
I tested the transfer of these groups on the network, via the touch screen, the group changed and transmitted within the network.
Problems occur on your device during transmission from c-bus network to knx.
For testing, I used the following tools:
For c-bus network: USB conection to network (5500PACA) and C-bus Toolkit v.1.14.6- --- 
For KNX network: TCP/IP connection to WEB interface of Logic Machine 5 (Openrb)
For Cytech c-bus knx translator: USB connection and Bus Translator Configurator v.1.0.1.0 (config in attachment)



In this video I use only group Lighting applications (56). Transmission in both directions is operating normally.
https://youtu.be/fVh3c1QOEk4

In this video I use the application 49. It is evident that the group is transferred to the c-bus network. Even in the logs of your device can be seen that from a c-bus network comes status changes of this group.But changes dont transmit to KNX network.
https://youtu.be/0cLSgiX23mg

Custom application groups has type like groups in Lighting (56) application. And can be set ON, OFF, or ramped from 0 to 255. 

Attachment: Tested config.zip (Downloaded 1 time)

Last edited on Monday Jan 16th, 2017 01:57 pm by m.j.sorokin



 Posted: Monday Jan 16th, 2017 04:23 pm
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slychiu
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You are saying that when you use custom application 49 like a lighting application, you can send the lighting command from Cbus, but it is not sent to KNX

How about in the other direction, does the mapped KNX group send to cbus work? I could not foillow the video



 Posted: Monday Jan 16th, 2017 04:39 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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From knx to c-bus groups transmit normaly. link to video dont work?



 Posted: Monday Jan 16th, 2017 05:52 pm
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slychiu
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We will look into this issue, perhaps a potential bug



 Posted: Tuesday Jan 17th, 2017 04:48 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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Thank you. Please take this matter in the near future, since I have a fixed period of time to work the change. If I do what I can to help, ready to give any information or to conduct any testing equipment.



 Posted: Saturday Jan 21st, 2017 10:34 am
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slychiu
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Can you test the cvus to knx firmware 1.006 attached to see if it will enable to custom application

Note that you can use custom applications 48 ($30) to 95 ($5F)  as alternate Lighting applications. Other applications not recognised are still not accepted

Attachment: cbusknx1_006.zip (Downloaded 3 times)



 Posted: Sunday Jan 22nd, 2017 03:10 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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Excellent! I check everything on Monday and the results write.



 Posted: Tuesday Jan 24th, 2017 04:27 pm
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m.j.sorokin
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Today I tested the firmware cbusknx1_006.
In general, everything works :P. But there are a few comments:
1. Application №95 ($5F) are reserved for the network Dali. You can add any other application that is not reserved in the C-bus Toolkit software?
2. The system provided for in Application №136 ($ 88) - Heating. It works as well as the Application №56 ($38) - Lights. You could not just add it to use?
****Just wanted to clarify the next moment, whether it is possible in any of the c-bus application use variables type integer or Float? Or is it in the c-bus is not possible?



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