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New system specification - help !
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 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 11:35 am
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muddymickey
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Hi all

I'm in the latter stages of a selfbuild project, and am about to spec & order my alarm system for a DIY install.
I'd been on the verge of buying a Texecom-based kit, then I stumbled across Comfort...

However, I've one or two basic question I hope someone can help me with:

Firstly, a shopping list.
Would the following basic setup provide me with a system that I can hook 8 PIR sensors into, program from my laptop, dial-out to various phones when there is an alarm, and dial into by phone to change settings:
1 x Control Panel CP9000-ULT/EN03
2 x White LCD keypads KP04-WH
1 x UCM module CM05
1 x 12v/7Ah battery
1 x Bellbox
8 x PIRs

(I'm aware this would be a very basic comfort setup, but initially I'm trying to keep the cost low.)

Secondly, how would I connect my laptop to the unit. Is there a USB interface ? What cable would I need to use and is one supplied ?

Thirdly, are there any particular makes of PIR sensor that I need to use, or any recommendations ?

Finally, anything I need to be aware of when selecting a bellbox/strobe unit ?

Many thanks
Lee



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 12:20 pm
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admin
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I think you have made the right choice :D

The new UCM/USB (see http://www.comfortforums.com/view_topic.php?id=1436&forum_id=4 ) allows you to connect to the computer using USB. The cable is supplied

Other versions of UCM include the UCM/Ethernet
Use the Comfigurator software ( see http://www.comfortforums.com/view_topic.php?id=1389&forum_id=20 ) to  program Comfort via the UCM

You should not depend completely on PIRs to detect intrusion. These should be the second line of defence as by the time these can work, the intruder is inside your house. You should use magnetic contacts for the external doors and windows
You should have the entry door or doors on magnetic contacts because you need to exit through the door to complete the setting or arming of the system. When you return home, opening the door causes the entry alert.

There is nothing special about the PIRs needed for Comfort. All PIRs used in alarm systems are powered from 12V and supply an open/close contact to the alarm

Also any  bellbox meant for burglar alarms can be used for Comfort. This shouldl normally  include a self actuating module which causes it to sound when the power is cut.

The list of UK distributors (assuming that you are in the UK) can be found at http://www.cytech-europe.co.uk/cms/installers.php#AA



Last edited on Saturday Feb 7th, 2015 04:06 pm by



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 12:31 pm
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muddymickey
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admin wrote: I think you have made the right choice :D
You would say that :)

Thanks for the advice.

The problem I have is that when I did the first-fix wiring, I got advice from a local alarm company regarding what alarm cables to run, and they advised running cables to various PIR positions, which I have done, but there  no cables to any doors or windows. They are no longer in business....

To do that, I'd need to use wireless devices....is there a way to add wireless sensors to Comfort ?

I don't have the budget to add wireless sensors to every door/window (there are lots of windows...) - I'm already finding the basic system cost a bit of a stretch - at the most I think I'd put a sensor on each of the 3 doors, plus one particularly vulnerable window.


Last edited on Monday Apr 27th, 2009 12:33 pm by muddymickey



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 12:49 pm
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Visonic have wireless door/window transmitters see http://www.visonic.com/VisonicHomePage.nsf/webProductsHP?OpenForm and wireless receivers that connect to a Comfort input

The advice from your former alarm company was not terribly good, it has cost you money



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 12:54 pm
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muddymickey
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Thanks for the Visonic info.

If I use one Visonic receiver and four wireless sensors, would Comfort be able to tell which of the 4 sensors were operated, or do they all get treated as one sensor by Comfort ?

Cheers
Lee



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 01:06 pm
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Lee
You need to use a 4 channel wireless receiver with 4 transmitters
The 4 channels will connect to 4 zones or inputs in comfort so it can tell which door or window was open



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 01:07 pm
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muddymickey
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Thanks for your help !

Looks like I need a zone expansion card as well then.



 Posted: Monday Apr 27th, 2009 01:50 pm
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Yes, if you have more than 8 zones then an LEM01-M2 with 8 inputs and 8 outputs will be needed



 Posted: Thursday Jun 4th, 2009 02:30 pm
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muddymickey
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Just a bit of feedback in case it helps anyone else doing this in the future...

Today I have wired up my Visonic MCR-308 receiver to Comfort, fitted the first wireless door contact (a Visonic MCT-302T) to my main door, and paired them.
The zone output from the MCR-308 is configured to be N/C and connects to a Comfort zone input configured not to use EOL.

Haven't done any programming of Comfort yet, but have wired this contact to Zone 1, and when in security test mode it announces the opening of the door just perfectly, so all is looking good :)

Three more wireless contacts and 8 PIRs to go !



 Posted: Friday Jun 5th, 2009 12:22 am
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ident
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From what I remember these wireless transmitters do not report door closed. Did you try to arm to Away Mode, then open and close the contact
Comfort looks for the closing of the contact to complete arming to Away



 Posted: Friday Jun 5th, 2009 10:56 am
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muddymickey
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ident wrote: From what I remember these wireless transmitters do not report door closed. Did you try to arm to Away Mode, then open and close the contact
Comfort looks for the closing of the contact to complete arming to Away

The Visonic MCT-302 transmitter has a jumper setting to enable/disable "restore reports".
The default setting is "enabled", which is how I've left them. The light on the transmitter flashes when the door is opened, and flashes again when it is closed (the light indicates transmission).

I presume that means the MCR-308 receiver zone output will close again, so Comfort senses the door has been closed.
Will give it a try !



 Posted: Friday Jun 5th, 2009 11:01 am
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muddymickey
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By the way, can I say your support on here is excellent and quick :)
One of the things that persuaded me to take the plunge with Comfort on a DIY basis !



 Posted: Friday Jun 5th, 2009 12:18 pm
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slychiu
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Thanks for the compliments
There are those who  say that we should not allow or encourage self-installers as they may  make a mess of it and give the product a bad name.
I disagree because in our experience, those who decide to do the installation themselves (even though they are not a large number) are highly motivated and capable,  tend to make full use of Comfort's capabilities, and give us good word of mouth.  Most importantly they  read the instructions.
We have had very few problems over many years with DIY installers who are unable to install and program Comfort once they have decided to take it on



 Posted: Sunday Jun 7th, 2009 08:06 am
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muddymickey
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ident wrote: From what I remember these wireless transmitters do not report door closed. Did you try to arm to Away Mode, then open and close the contact
Comfort looks for the closing of the contact to complete arming to Away

I tried this yesterday, and the transmitters DO report door closed.
I armed to Away, opened the door, Comfort reported "Front Door". I closed the door, and Comfort proceeded to arm successfully.




 Posted: Friday Aug 28th, 2009 01:24 pm
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bryanajones
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Thanks for allowing DIY's. That's me and I'm about to start my second (does that make me an installer? :) ).

I put my first system in and ran it (and impressed many people with it :) ) for the last 9 years. It's time to move so its time to start again.

Given that my last install was so long ago and so much has changed I'm hoping for some of that community support I came to love.

My first question is PIR's. Can anyone give me an opinion on whether 360 degree ceiling mount PIR's are any good / ok for Comfort (I'm looking at the Optex FX-360 - there is an FX-360LP that has alarm memory latch, but I dont know what that means. Can someone explain?).

Also cabling. In the last build I started off using screened 8 core, but soon ran out. I switched to using Cat5 UTP which has worked out fine. Is there a rule for cabling? Is Cat 5UTP better than screened 8 core alarm cable?

Can more than one PIR share the same 8 core screened alarm cable on the return to the CPU or should each PIR have its own cable?

Thanks

Bryan



 Posted: Saturday Aug 29th, 2009 06:54 am
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For alarm wiring it is better to use alarm cable which is normally 7 x 0.2 which means 7 strands of 0.2 mm2. This is multicore cable which is more flexible and does not tend to break so easily compared to CAT5. Screened 8 core alarm cable is really not necessary for alarm wiring. You should use one cable for each PIR unless you have no choice because the spare cables can be used in case of cable degradation, as resistance tends to increase over the years so it allows you to double up the wires

For Keypads, SCS, RIO, Door stations and other data cables you should use CAT 5, preferably screened

Ceiling mount can be used for Comfort just like wall mounted. It makes no difference to Comfort, but you must assess the specific device used, its reliability and ability to filter out false signals. Dont know what is alarm memory latch sorry.



 Posted: Tuesday Sep 29th, 2009 04:44 pm
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bryanajones
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Can anyone advise if the "LuNAR DT 360 Ceiling Mount PIR Grade 3" is a suitable PIR?

http://www.riscogroup.com/Download1.aspx?file=LuNAR-DTAM_G3).pdf&folder=english&id=199

It says that it comes with built in EOL resistors. Would this be compatible with Comfort?

Thanks

Bryan



 Posted: Wednesday Sep 30th, 2009 01:54 am
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The "triple EOL" resistors would not be compatible with Comfort
Why not use the Grade 2 version? There is no benefit in using Grade 3 components unless the rest of your installation is Grade 3, and this requires a certified installer



 Posted: Friday Oct 2nd, 2009 06:27 am
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bryanajones
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I looked at this one because it used microwave as well as PIR which seemed like a good idea to cut down on false alarms. If this isnt compatible then would this be a better alternative?

http://www.optexeurope.com/Site/temPW3_001.asp?intPage=1708&intTemplateID=100&intLevel=5

http://www.optexeurope.com/Site/downloads/FX-360(1).pdf



 Posted: Friday Oct 2nd, 2009 09:17 am
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slychiu
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This are compatible they dont have "triple end of line resistors"

There are other PIRs in the market with "dual technology" ie Microwave and Infrared detection to reduce false alarms. It has nothing to do with the Class 3 grading




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